Battle of Kirbekan

[Mark]

Do any members know of any well detailed and accurate reports/accounts of the Battle of Kirbekan in 1885? In particular I am looking for information on the part played by the 1st South Staffords during the action. Everything I have read so far offers little actual detail.

Cheers in advance!

Mark

[hickspasha]

Hi Mark,

You may try: http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/038SStaf.htm . There is a list of references for the Nile Campaign that may have what you are looking for. Also try writing the 1st South Staffords themselves or the National Archives of the U.K. The regiment themselves would be the best starting point, or a reenactment group. The generosity of help that historical and archival institutions provide is really wonderful. I was able to trace an ancestor who served with Kitchener in the Boer War with only three period photographs and as it turned out only of part of a last name (changed when they came to the U.S.). This was through the Royal Engineers because I could make out the colar tabs identifying the man as an engineer. A history of an engagement should be no problem at all and they may actually provide you with after action reports done by officers present at the battle.

[villaphan]

Thanks for that hickspasha.

Welcome to the Forum

Mark

[uzbashi]

Hi Mark

my "Battles of the Nineteenth Century - Vol 2" published by Cassell and Co, London ,1897 has a very florid description of the Battle of Kirkeban, Feb 10th 1885 with a map and report by Charles Lowe which runs to ten pages with several engravings including one of General Earl, if that is of any use.

Uzbashi

[Mark]

Hi Uzbashi

Thank you for the book reference. It is not a book I am familiar with so will have a look around the internet and see if a copy exists somewhere.

Regards

Mark

[villaphan]

Hi Mark

Think this may be of great interest to you.
http://beta.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewP ... n&similar=
Going back now to read it in more detail

Mark

[pittpiper]

Mark,
Osprey Publishing's Khartoum 1885: General Gordon's last stand has a short description of the battle but it also has a nice 3D map of the battle which shows and explains the troops movements which is nice. I am a visual learner, and I like to see maps of battles along with text.

[Mark]

Hi pittpiper

Cheers for that mate, I will go and see if I can track down a copy. I like 3D maps too because, as you say, they make it a lot easier to understand. Shame even more recent publications don't use more 3D rather than the traditional flat maps.

Mark

[Mark]

Hi all

Since we now have quite a few more members on the forum I thought I would resurrect this one. Sadly the Regiments.org site has now gone so I cannot view the references linked to above.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a book that covers this action in detail?

Mark

[mike snook]

Mark

Brackenbury's 'River Column' and Butler's 'Campaign of the Cataracts' are what you need. 'Brack' was second in command and took over after Sir William Earle's death and Col Butler (later Lt Gen Sir William - whose wife was Lady Elizabeth the famous artist) was in command of the cavalry with the River Column. About two thirds of Butler's book is given over to how clever he is, and what a good idea the whalers were, but the last third is about events after the force reached Korti and divided into River and Desert Columns, including the Battle of Kirbekan.

Both books are effectively unaffordable in first editions but both are also available in modern reprints. Becuase I'm doing a PhD in this stuff I have spent rather more money than is sensible and own a first edition Butler and two reprints (don't ask!). If you ping me your postal address via PM I'd be happy to send you the spare reprint, gratis of course.

As to Brackenbury I think, though will have to check, that I have superseded a paperback reprint with a hardback reprint. That being so I'll happily pass on the pbk too.

In addition to the Staffs Museum try also the Black Watch who may have primary accounts by members of their regiment.

There is also a book by a guy called Gordon called off the top of my head 'My Six years in the Black Watch.' He was a corporal and was at Kirbekan. Reprints available.

Major General Andy Wauchope (KIA IC Highland Brigade at Magersfontein, 1899) was severely wounded at Kirbekan (poor feller couldn't go near a battlefield without being shot at some point in the proceedings - he was WIA I think on two other occasions). There is an old biography of him which you might pick up for 50 or 60 quid if you are prepared to go that far. I am not aware that there has ever been a reprint.

Hope that's of some help - if anything else occurs I'll supplement this info.

Regards as ever

Mike

[nilevoyageur]

Are you still interested in the Staffordshires at Kirbekan?

I'm a doctoral student writing about the Nile voyageur contingent on that expedition and there was a group of Canadians who were at Kirbekan and ordered to stay out of the way. They wrote some letters about the whole thing and one guy in particular thought the South Staffordshires were very good at bayonetting the Ansari.

If there is anyone still out there, I could paste the text of his letter into this forum, plus a couple of other accounts mentioning the Staffordshires there.

In terms of books you can read Butler online for free and I would also suggest that you look for CP Stacey's volume for the Champlain society on the Nile Voyageurs. I found it online at one time and downloaded the whole thing. It has some excerpts dealing with the battle and large sections from the diary of the River Column, as well as the entire official diary kept by the officer in command of the Canadian contingent. Cassell's history of the Soudan is online too. In fact, if you haven't already checked out Google books, you'll find that all these victorian wars have oodles of memoirs and all of their copyrights have expired so Google will let you have them all for free to read in your online google library. From there if you search for Kirbekan or Staffordshires you will find a fair amount I imagine.

Let me know if you want to see the Canadian descriptions of the Staffordshires and I'll find it for you.

[Mark A. Reid]

Hello Nilevoyageur;

Very kind of you to post this information. There is a more modern summation of the Voyageur experience entitled Canadians on the Nile by Roy Maclaren, as I'm sure you know, but I doubt if this is available on Google Books yet as it was only published in 1978.

Good luck with your thesis, by the way.

Cheers,

Mark

[Mark]

Are you still interested in the Staffordshires at Kirbekan?

I am indeed

Mark