Veterinary officers & veterinary matters / 2nd Afghan War

[maiwander]

I am compiling a biographical database on all the Veterinary Surgeons who served in the 2nd Afghan War. They are a forgotten group of professionals who without them the various columns could not have done without with. I have quite a comprehsive list, much improved on the official list in Smith's History of the RAVC 1600 - 1914. The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons has been particularly helpful.

In addition I am building up a picture on the work they did during the campaign with the huge range of animals under their charge and the trials and tribulations they endured. A statistical breakdown of animals is also under way.

If any member has any information, no matter what, on any Veterinary Officer who served during this campaign I would be grateful if they could share it with me. I would also welcome any information regarding the work, animals etc., they worked with during the campaign.

It is my intention to publish a paper on this aspect of the campaign and any assistance will be acknowledged accordingly.

Many thanks to you all

Richard
(Maiwander)

[Garen]

Hello Richard - I know you sent me an email on this, and I apologise for not answering yet... I was waiting for a gap to consult books and stuff. It's quite a big question really - can you suggest a specific or two you might be after? I'm guessing you already have names from the medal roll.

Generally speaking, I don't have many - if any - mentions of individual veterinary staff that I can recall. There's plenty on the plight of camels, which has fascinated (and appalled) me, and is something I've been taking a few notes on.

For now, here's a tangentially related person... Andrew Saltoun was with the 72nd Highlanders in the Afghan War, and he also, unusually, experienced a year's service in the British Navy. In 1915 he went to Gallipoli and then France with the Army Veterinary Corps (probably due to his age rather than experience).

I'll keep an eye open for anything.

[Isandlwana]

Richard,

Have you tried the Museum of the Army Medical Services? The curator there, Peter Starling, provided me with the veterinary report on the Anglo-Zulu War, it can't be beyond the bounds of possibility there's an alike one was produced for the 2nd Afghan War, can it?

There's that cracking painting in the N.A.M. of an officer in the 2nd Afghan War putting a horse out of its misery entitled something like Cruel but only to be kind.

Isandlwana

[Liz]

Hi Maiwander

Another source you could try would be the Imperial War Museum. They put together an exhibition on animals in war circa 2000, and published a book of the same name by Jilly Cooper as described here see http://www.victorianwars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=462&p=2905.

The book includes a variety of information on the evolution of the veterinary corps and some hilarious anecdotes on British efforts to establish a camel corps. Alas, the 2nd Afghan War didn't really come up except in the chapter on mascots (where Bobby the dog got a mention).

However, you still might want to contact the museum or author. You never know 1) what gets culled out of such books for space/time reasons and 2) what new information comes to light after they are published. Cheers,

Liz

[swordcollector1]

I would also welcome any information regarding the work, animals etc., they worked with during the campaign.

Hi Richard,

Slightly out of period, but if it's of any help I have a 1908 copy of Animal Management, which is the official instruction manual for veterinary officers on all aspects of managing animals in Army service. Happy to do lookups etc as needed.

Regards,

John

[maiwander]

Hello Everybody.

Many thanks to all who have come back to me. I am very grateful for all the information and tips that you have passed on.

I will contact the Army Medical Services Museum in the hope that they may have a report on the 2nd Afghan War. I had not really thought of that avenue and certainly it is worth persuing. Fingers crossed on this one.

Jilly Cooper's book is very good, I have a very old battered copy which I purchased when I was collecting medals to the AVC and RAVC in the days when I had lots of wonga! Again, I think I will contact the NAM and possibly hope they will contact Jilly Cooper in the hope the can supply material.

No worries Garen, I know how busy you are these days. I think I have nearly all the Vets who seved in the campaign. The medal roll was very informative and collerates with the material the RCVS supplied - images would be good though!! I would still like a copy of the chapter in the offical report if possible and anything on the animals (your camels etc.).

I will keep the Forum updated on this topic/project. In the meantime many thanks again for the advice and keep the info rolling in!!

Richard

[Garen]

I would still like a copy of the chapter in the offical report if possible and anything on the animals (your camels etc.).

What chapter in the Official Account are you referring to, Richard? The OA is really just a chronological account of the movements and actions of the war. Info on camels is scattered across many many books, they must get a mention in just about everything as they seemed to be the bane of everyone's lives. Of course, they died in their thousands too - I find their plight quite sad really. Le Messurier mentions camels a lot in his published diary of 1879 (Le Messurier, Major: Kandahar in 1879 Being the Diary of Major Le Messurier, R.E. W. H. Allen & Co. 1880).

And here's an extract from an entry of 22 Dec 1878, from the private Afghan War diary in my collection:

Got to bank of river by Kassim-ka-joke about 3.45 pm. Found a ford for crossing, had to get a lot of jungle grass cut down for the camels to cross over on, as the banks were very muddy. Rode on and laid out camp and then went back to ford. Had a great trouble when it got dark, as the ford got very bad and several camels fell down and others wouldn't cross, didn't get them all over till 9.15 pm and then was obliged to leave 2 camels in the mud as we couldn't get them out.

[maiwander]

Hi Garen

I suppose I am working in the dark here. As I do not have a copy, or even seen a copy, of the OA I am not aware of how the document is indexed or put into chapters. What I am hoping is that there is an appendix with veterinary statistics on animals e.g. numbers used, deaths, wounded etc. I would expect such an appendix to exisist somewhere, especially as there are official records for animal casualities for Maiwand.

Perhaps you could have a peek for me Garen, would be most grateful if you could. I have a trace out for a copy of the OA but as yet nothing has turned up, so they are very scarce. Maybe I will have to locate one via the library system in UK.

I will look up references in some of the accounts I have, and maybe see if there are reprint copies of Le Mesueirr's diary around.

Again thanks for any help you can give in getting the material ready for the paper - one well overdue I think and one for the memory of all those poor animals who suffered in the campaign.

Richard

[Garen]

I can definitely get some animals numbers to you, but I might not be quick, as I expect it'll take the best part of the daylight hours to gather it all together - maybe I'll send them to you in dribs and drabs.

Yes the Official Account is rare, and expensive! But you have seen a copy before... the Wardrobe have one in the library we used as a meeting room - so if you can access that... This is the Abridged Official Account of course - the India Office Library has the full six volume (or is it ten volume?) version - of which only one or two copies are known to exist. (drool)

[Liz]

Yes the Official Account is rare, and expensive! But you have seen a copy before... the Wardrobe have one in the library we used as a meeting room - so if you can access that... This is the Abridged Official Account of course - the India Office Library has the full six volume (or is it ten volume?) version - of which only one or two copies are known to exist. (drool)

Was an official account published for the 1st Afghan War too? Or was this something that only started to be done in later campaigns? Things like official histories of individual regiments only started appearing in the late 1830s, judging by the 40 or so I've located online.

[maiwander]

Thanks for that Garen.

I recall the AO at The Wardrobe of course, but as you know living 135 miles away from the museum makes it difficult to access it on a regular basis. Maybe I will contact you know who and see if he can weedle some information out for me.

I do appreciate any statistics you can find Garen, and of course appreciate this may take some while. Dribs and drabs will be fine, like you I have to fit all the interesting things in life into the drugery of paid employment! If I could only win the lottery

Thanks again mate - you are a gem.

Liz - I am not sure if veterinary reports were complete so early, I will have a look around in one or two reference books I have.

Richard

[katecha]

I've actually found this forum because I'm looking for information on an ancestor who I believe was a veterinary surgeon around the time of the Afghan war. I don't know if he was involved in the war himself, but he died in Peshawar in 1879. His name was Thomas James Lang, and he was appointed as a Royal Artillery Veterinary Surgeon on April 27 1860, at the rank of Lieutenant. If you have any information on him, I'd love to hear it.

[maiwander]

I've actually found this forum because I'm looking for information on an ancestor who I believe was a veterinary surgeon around the time of the Afghan war. I don't know if he was involved in the war himself, but he died in Peshawar in 1879. His name was Thomas James Lang, and he was appointed as a Royal Artillery Veterinary Surgeon on April 27 1860, at the rank of Lieutenant. If you have any information on him, I'd love to hear it.

Apologies for not coming back to you earlier. I have looked up your ancestor in my records but there is no record of him serving with any unit in the 2nd Afghan campaign. I thought he may have served in the early part of the war but it seems he may have died before his regiment became involved. I checked in the roll published in Smith's 'A History of the Royal Army Veterinary Corps 1796-1919' which lists Veterinary Surgeons who were involved in campaigns from Waterloo to the Boer War. He is not listed in any of the campaigns either. However, a warning, Smith's list is not complete as I have found out when researching Veterinary Surgeons in the 2nd Afghan campaign.

It may be worth your while contacting the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons Library in London. I have found them most helpful in supplying information on Veterinary Surgeon's careers and lists of those serving in the army year by year. It can be patchy, but to give you encouragement they provided me with information on an ancestor of mine (William Ryding) who was a Veterinary Surgeon with the 1st Dragoons at Waterloo & even a scanned copy of a book he wrote. Contact Pam Greening on p.greening [at] rcvstrust.org.uk. She was most helpful, but again I must warn you that you may have to wait some time for a reply, she and her colleagues are very busy these days. I assume that Pam is still there, if not look up their address and write to them.

I hope this will have been of some help you. Good luck in your research.