Russians and British Picture

[Will Mathieson]

[swordcollector1]

They all look a bit bored, don't they?

[GrantRCanada]

They all look a bit bored, don't they?

Indeed they do ..... except for the poor laddie getting shot, that is .....

[jf42]

Sometimes, I don't know how Osprey get away with it. Illustrations like that would disgrace a cheap 'comic-book-

[Swordswoman]

I think that's just where it came from, jf42 - it's licensed from Look and Learn - http://www.lookandlearn.com/blog/15317/half-a-century-of-war-left-russia-defeated-and-demoralised/

Actually, I find it rather hilarious. The boredom is wonderful, and so is the static approach of the Highlanders on the right.

But if Osprey have used this, that would be a disgrace. The odd mixture of Russian uniforms is one thing (and might work with separate labels) but the Highlanders appear to be carrying the colours of the Guards!

Or am I wrong about this? The image looks as if it's been inspired by this famous one of the Scots Fusilier Guards at the Alma -

Scots Fusilier Guards colours.jpg (16.96 KiB) Viewed 960 times

but I noticed when I saved the picture from this site http://www.britishbattles.com/crimean-war/alma.htm it comes up with the jpeg label '42nd Highlanders'. That surely can't be right, since the colours of the Black Watch were surely these:

42nd Highlanders colours.jpg (67.67 KiB) Viewed 960 times

Picture credit: http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-post-50389.html

Either way, while it's hard to tell without the hackles being shown, I think there's a hint of the Kilmarnock band under these feather bonnets which would make them 93rd Highlanders. As far as I know, the colours of the 93rd Sutherland Highlanders looked like this:

93rd colours.jpeg (6.58 KiB) Viewed 960 times

Not that it matters really, since I doubt anyone would take this picture seriously! At least, I hope not...

Louise

[Will Mathieson]

Interesting comments, I actually found this on a auction site, in past auction results and it was described as WW1 Germans and Brits, imagine that. I believe it was a framed picture presented as an original.
I wanted to add it to the two brass items found in Crimea (with tag) in another post to show they are Russian helmet finnials.
Just could not find the post.

[swordcollector1]

Actually, I find it rather hilarious. The boredom is wonderful, and so is the static approach of the Highlanders on the right.

Not to mention the Russian drawing a careful bead on the Highlander a full 16 inches in front of him!

John

[Swordswoman]

Not to mention the Russian drawing a careful bead on the Highlander a full 16 inches in front of him!
John

I know - it's brilliant!

It's a wonderful find, Will, and I suppose it could still have been an original print. Richard Hook was a freelance artist who did hundreds of illustrations for 'Look and Learn' but individual pieces might have been sold separately as well.

And of course you're right: one of the few things that's accurate here is that Russian helmet - which I don't think they wore again after the Alma. At least they certainly didn't at Inkerman, but they might have taken them up again later in 1855. Does anyone know if they did? I'm afraid I haven't got that far in my research.

Louise

[jf42]

Not the 42nd, the doublets have yellow facings and the dicing on the feathered bonnets looks to be the red and white Sutherland so the Highlanders at frame left would seem to be 93rd. The anomalous colours behind may be meant to belong to the Guardsmen to their left. Unfortunately, the Guards Brigade were not to the left of the Highland brigade at the heights of Alma but to the right. The 93rd and Scots Fusilier Guards were at the centre of their respective brigades.

Richard Hook has illustrated a lot of Osprey Books, some with similar dynamic effect.

[Albert J]

The Guards also appear to be wearing tunics, as opposed to the coatee.

[Swordswoman]

Richard Hook has illustrated a lot of Osprey Books, some with similar dynamic effect.

Almost thou persuadest me to go and seek them...

And yes I do agree they're meant to be 93rd. In a way the biggest anomaly is that the Highlanders are here at all, as this appears to be the Second Taking of the Greater Redoubt, which was pretty much over while the Highlanders were still advancing from the east, mowing down everything in their path. As you say, they were much further out than the Guards, and with a front a mile and a half long. I'm guessing Hook saw the picture of Scots Fusilier Guards, translated 'Scots' into 'Highlanders', and drew the uniforms accordingly.

Albert J, well spotted with the Guard's coatees! I'd missed that completely. It's the kind of picture where you find more to enjoy every time you look at it!

Has anyone got any more of these? It's rather like those 'Spot the Differences' games, where you have to put a ring round every mistake...

[jf42]

I see a new, long-running thread in the offing...

[Lachlan]

Hello all, brand new recruit here !

I also notice the Guards appear to wearing tunics rather than coatees.

[Josh&Historyland]

It must be Alma.
But it isn't Osprey worthy, as has been said, it's likely to be a look and learn or for one of those generic "100 things you never knew about History) hardbacks you find in garden centres and £1 shops.
Saying that the Highlanders, almost certainly the 93rd Argyl and Sutherland, because there is no other stripes in the tartan and indicating the other regiments that where present, and they have yellow facings.
Positionally speaking the Highlanders should be on the left, doing a textbook job of taking ground so if your looking at this in the light of realism it's obviously faulted.
However in the type of books mentioned above, especially the discount type, illustrators often go for representing the flavour of a battle rather than the strict reality. Popularly speaking the Highlanders and Guards are very much associated with Alma, so he probably stuck them in there on the wrong flank and the wrong position (I think the 42nd might have lead at the Alma, being senior and all but that could be wrong) just for demonstration purposes so he could sort of tell both stories.

Josh.

[rd72]

By way of trivia.....

A comment on the Colours shown in both pictures here. Some may know of this point and I in no way intend to insult anyone's intellegence but here I go anyway...

Normally a stand of Colours consists of two colours, the Queen's Colour and the Regimental Colour. In line regiments (that is to say non-Guards, non-Rifles) the Queen's Colour is the National Flag and the Regimental Colour is one of Regimental design, usually in the facing colour. In the Guards, this arrangement is reversed with the Queen's Colour being one of Regimental design (Crimson with central, regimental cypher and Battle Honours) and the Regimental Colour being the National flag. When carried, in battle or on parade, the "senior" Colour (the Queen's Colour) is always on the right of the two (barring total breakdown of the line of battle as in a rout or something similar).... Ordinarly this would make it the Union flag on the right. In the Guards, the union flag would be on the left.... This accounts for the differences in position between the two images... Not that the "cartoon" is an example to follow, but the second one of the SFG shows correctly, the arrangement on the battle field.

What sparked this little tidbit was the comment "the Highlanders seem to be carrying the Colours of the Guards". By the colour (crimson), yes it would seem so, but by position (Union on the right), no.

I don't want to attach any importance to the cartoon, but it was just a little bit of info I thought that I would share....

Cheers, Rob