Headwear: Victorian foreign service helmet markings

[Jocktamson]

ED, in Los Angeles".....The helmet in question sold for 230.51BP or 361.52 US$

Ouch... Oh well, in the words of the prophet "caveat emptor"

[Jocktamson]

I do understand. I've been there more than once where something I thought was real was not. It is NOT a good feeling. I've actually stopped posting some items because I do feel there is an element that wants nothing more than to knock people down. Even if a helmet is 100 percent correct, someone will jump in with the "I don't like..." and after that the item is somewhat tainted.

I have to agree there Peter, I think most collectors at some point have been either duped or bought something that just turned out to be a complete dud, the main thing is to learn from it and move on... and without doubt if one hundred people say something is definitely genuine and one person casts doubt on it, there is always that feeling at the back of your mind, maybe they are they right.

Re. Grumpy, yes unfortunately people are sometimes promoted to a position on who they know, not what they know and that general lack of interest permeates right throughout many areas of society, not just museums. With regards to not being given access to examine or photograph anything, i've come across that on a couple of occasions, but in fairness, some museums are very accommodating and do make an effort, it just seems at the N.A.M. the lunatics are running the asylum.

[Cathey Brimage]

Hi Guys

I have just sat down and read through these posts with great amusement. I know that if I had a question on Victorian head gear I would go to Stuart Bates as I have seen his collection and he clearly knows what he is talking about. I know very little about head gear, so I always seek advice before I purchase, not after the fact, unless something is such a silly price you can afford the gamble. For example, I did post a supposedly cavalry jacket on this site as I had no idea what it was and was advised that it was actually a theatrical item. The members providing that advice took the time to explain their reasoning in detail and so I have accepted it as fact and will move the item on as a “theatrical jacket”.

I agree that some people publish coffee table books with plenty of pretty pictures who may in reality know very little about the actual subject. However, this is certainly not the case with the two members who have published books on Sun hats. I have both of Stuart’s books and they are certainly not coffee table books, rather very comprehensive and well researched references.

As far as a museum authority goes, they are the last people I would trust for an “Expert” opinion. The Adelaide museum has a large collection of swords that it will not display and has tried to loose for years. In order to give a long serving employee in there transport area a pay rise they made him the curator of their arms and militaria collection. Needless to say as a truck driver he was very experienced. As soon as this chap reached out to the collecting fraternity to learn about his new area of responsibility, the museum moved him on ‘heaven forbid he actually know something” about the arms and militaria in his care.

Cheers Cathey

[Albert J]

This is the interior of a wicker framed other ranks Foreign Service helmet from my collection showing what I consider to be properly issue marked.

The first line...1034... The soldiers' service number.
The second line...His Regiment, in this case the 1st Battalion Welsh Fusiliers
The third... The month and year issued, July - 1891.

The circular mark to the right is the inspectors stamp.

By the way, well said Cathey,Peter,Jock,ED,Stuart,Grumpy!

AlbertJ

[Jocktamson]

Nice example...wish it were mine!

[Neville_Constantine]

Here is another example of a wicker framed other ranks FS helmet showing regimental markings for the "NFA".

I believe "NFA" stands for "Natal Field Artillery". However, I have been unable to find any images of the Natal Field Artillery wearing this type of helmet.

Can anyone think of any other contenders?
Indeed, were the wicker framed helmets used in South Africa at all?

I understand that the NFA adopted slouch hats soon after the outbreak of the Boer War.

Neville

[Albert J]

Hi Neville,

It was common for the wicker frame helmet to be seen in South Africa during the 2nd Anglo Boer War. Particularly by units being
transfered from India to SA. Does the helmet retain it's pappier mache puggaree beneath the khaki cover?

The "A" does not appear in line with the NF. It also appears slightly smaller? I suspect this could be an issue helmet to the Northumberland Fusiliers, but the "A" seems ??? The NF were sent to SA from India and are known to have worn the wicker framed helmet. The typical khaki cover for these had a 2-3 inch wide band around the crown roughly the width of the pappier mache puggaree below. The NF had a further embellishment of a 1" wide red band around the crown forming a "V" shape to the front and rear for the old 5th regt. of foot.



James

[Neville_Constantine]

Hi James

Many thanks for the excellent information regarding wicker frame helmets and their use in South Africa.

I see what you mean about the "A". It is indeed displaced, though having measured it, it is exactly the same height as the "N" and "F" (it looks smaller because of a bump in the lining which puts the letter at a different angle to the viewer).
I have had a quick look at the QSA medal rolls for the Northumberland Fusiliers and see that there were very few three figure regimental numbers by then, and none as low as "246". So I suspect this places the helmet in India sometime in the 1890s. I have found numbers "245" and "248" on the IGS medal roll for 1888-1890.
There is a name in very feint pencil on the lining - possibly "Sergt-Major Brown". So, one day I will get to the bottom of this!

The cover is definitely original to the helmet. As well as fitting beautifully, the sewn hole for the chin strap hook on the right side of the helmet is located perfectly. So, if this is a Northumberland Fusiliers helmet, it appears to have a variant of the banded cover that you describe.

The puggaree is of the roll type. I am not sure what it is filled with, though it feels like some form of straw or shredded paper.

I had always hoped that this was a Natal Field Artillery helmet (and "authorities" on such matters at both the National Army Museum and the South African National War Museum had identified it as such). But I always had my doubts, and I think your take on the markings gives a much more plausible pedigree for the piece.

Neville

[Neville_Constantine]

The NF had a further embellishment of a 1" wide red band around the crown forming a "V" shape to the front and rear for the old 5th regt. of foot.

This drawing of a Northumberland Fusilier clearly shows the FS helmet cover that Albert J descibes.

[Albert J]

Hi Neville,

Here is a pick from my collection showing two corporals of the NF mounted infantry section in South Africa 1900. The "V" is just visible on the figure wearing the helmet. Also included is a pick from the Anglo Boer War Museum website. ( I believe this helmet resides in a museum in Northumberland, I have photos tucked away somewhere that I snapped there a few years back). This shows the NF "flash" rather well. Also evident is the hole in the khaki cover for the chinstrap hook.

A rather interesting helmet you have Neville, thanks for sharing.

James

[Neville_Constantine]

Hi James

Great photos.

Looking at the lower picture, the form of the helmet and the construction of the cover are identical to mine.
The only difference is the additional red and white "V".

This suggests my helmet pre-dates the introduction of this regimental identifier.
Were such devices in general use before the Boer War or were they introduced for active service, when large bodies of troops needed flashes to distinguish one group of khaki clad men from another?

Neville

[Albert J]

The lighter shaded"V", is actually a lighter khaki. I believe the helmet I viewed and photographed in Northumberland dated to the early-mid 1890's and was attributed to a soldier serving on the Northwest Frontier. Helmet flashes became more widespread during the Sudan Campaign of 1898 but were in limited use prior.

First though, we need to establish if this indeed is marked to the NF. Which I believe it could be. Perhaps someone with more access will see this thread and check if Sgt. Major Brown was serving with the NF around 1890-1900.

James