Letter from James Locke 24th ref Chillianwallah

[FRA]

I have a typed photocopy of a letter written 50 years after the Battle of Chillianwallah by a soldier who was there, and wounded, James Locke. It may be all those interested know about this but, in case not, the soldiers of the 24th mentioned in the letter are Charley Locker, Jack Brassingham, Stokey Coles, Joe Harper, and Cpl Bob Warren. Let me know if you`d like more detail. FRA.

[Liz]

Hi Bill

A warm welcome to the VWF. I would love to know more about this letter and this battle. Please post whatever you can here!

Thanks for this,

Liz

[FRA]

Liz, SEnd me your address and I`ll put a copy in the post.FRA.

[acanthus]

If the letter gives any specific details of the battle, I would be most interested in knowing if and how I might be able to get a copy.

[Amarpal Sidhu]

Hi Fra,
I'd be most interested in the contents of the letter as well. I'm currently writing a comprehensive account of the Second Anglo-Sikh War at the moment in which needless to say Chilliawallah is a major chapter.

I released a book on the First Anglo-Sikh War in 2010...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Anglo-Sik ... 597&sr=1-1

Any information the letter provides would be most gratefully accepted as I really wish to make this book as detailed as possible.

Regards

Amarpal

[Matt Easton]

Amarpal,
Very good looking book you have there, I think I'll have to get a copy.
Regarding primary source accounts from the Second (and First) Anglo-Sikh war, you may find some useful bits in D A Kinsley's book:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/search.ep?keyW ... vance-desc

Regards,
Matt

[Amarpal Sidhu]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the tip - havent noticed this book before and it looks interesting. Will check it out

[Les Waring]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the tip - havent noticed this book before and it looks interesting. Will check it out

Amarpal

I assume that you know about these books, but just in case.

Swinson & Scott eds. The Memoirs of Private Waterfield ( Cassell . London. 1968)

Ryder John . Four Years Service in India (1844-48) ( W.H. Burton . Leicester 1853)

Robert Waterfield was a private and John Ryder a corporal in the 32nd Foot during the 'Second Sikh war'. Although the 32nd didn't play a major part in the conflict they did fight at Multan, Gujerat and were at Cheniote. Waterfield and Ryder give short but vivid accounts, from the point of view of rankers, of both the fighting, atrocities committed and the 'death march' of the 32nd from the Sutlej to Multan, in August 1848, during which they lost over 20 dead from heat and lack of water.

I'll be looking forward to the publication (as an e-book ?) as I'm planning to do a doctoral thesis (socio-military history) on the 'tour of duty' of the 32nd in the sub-continent 1846-59, when and if I get my Lucknow-related stuff out of the way and finish my current M.A.

Very unlikely because he was then a mere ensign who arrived from England during the fighting at Multan, but if you come across any mention (none in Ryder or Waterfield) of Sam Lawrence of the 32nd, I'd be delighted to hear about it.

Best of luck with the book

Les Waring

[FROGSMILE]

Amarpal,

I have a copy of the book Sergeant Pearman's Memoirs (edited by the Marquess of Anglesey) SBN 224 61466 5 published by Jonathan Cape in 1968 and covering his service with the 3rd (King's Own) Hussars in India 1845-1853, including the First and Second Sikh Wars. Please let me know if you are interested in loaning this.

[Amarpal Sidhu]

Hi Frogsmile ,
Many thanks for offer - already have a much treasured copy - Pearman makes for a very interesting read indeed. Something about Victorian books - their prose is so much more colourful and interesting !

[Amarpal Sidhu]

Thanks for the reference to books Les - I didn't have Waterfield (but have now thanks to you)
I have Ryder which is a great read !

I hope the new book will be released in kindle format by my publishers - I'm a kindle fan myself.
I will keep an eye out for Sam Lawrence , it doesn't ring a bell but I'm a fan of minor details ad of he comes up in any account it'll set
off alarm bells
Tour of duty of the 32nd sounds good - makes me wish I had done a History degree/PhD instead of boring old Electronics.

[Amarpal Sidhu]

By the way if any of you knowledgeable gentlemen are on twitter, would love to exchange tweets - @amarpalsidhu
Already linked in with Mark @marksimner the Admin for this august forum !

[Les Waring]

Amarpal

Thanks for the comment, hope Waterfield will be of use to you, He’s a favourite of mine. You have to be a bit careful with him, as with most memoirs. For example, despite being very critical of the brutal discipline and neglect of soldiers’ welfare, he never mentions several short periods of imprisonment, which appear in his service record.

I wonder if you, with your local knowledge, can help me in relation to the journey of the 32nd to Multan. In my edition of Waterfield pp. 48-52. Diary dates 12 August – 25 August 1848.

P. 48. He mentions the regiment/battalion (same thing as the 32nd only had one battalion) marching from ‘Ferozepore’ and embarking on boats at ‘Ghat’ on 12 August, before sailing down the Sutlej, disembarking at an unnamed place on 18 August.
They then marched, roughly north-eastwards reaching ‘Shamree’, about 17.5 miles (28km.) on 20 August, 'Saugor', a further 14 miles (22.5km), on 21st August , where he reports the ‘in tent’ temperature as 123°F (50.55°C) p.50. This would surely be a subcontinent and almost a world record if taken these days. A further 9 miles (14.5km) took them to ‘Rangolree’ on 22 August and almost 12 miles (19km) on to ‘Sujeebad’ ln 23 August, where there was a general collapse and a number of deaths due to heat exhaustion (not surprisingly). Then another 9 odd miles (14.5km) to ‘Glaverness’ on 24 August, followed by 11 miles (17.7 km) and encampment a couple of miles from Multan on 25 August. P.50.

Is there any chance of your being able to identify the underlined places with modern settlements/towns. I’m particularly interested in identifying the place of disembarkation on 18 August. Any likely candidate? Google Maps didn’t prove very useful and i don’t have an atlas with sufficient detail of the region.

Thanks in advance for any help. No urgency.
Les W.

[Maureene]

Hi Les

Here is a 1851 map of the region, from the David Rumsey collection, but I can't see any og the places you have mentioned.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet ... mi=2&trs=5

Cheers
Maureen

[Les Waring]

Maureen

My first attempt at a reply went down some cyberspacial black hole. Must remember to put everything on a Word document first.
Thanks for the map. It answers some questions and, as usual with these things, poses some new ones. Once again I’ll appeal to those with a far greater knowledge of the subcontinent than me, like yourself, and to those with specialized knowledge of the terrain and the campaign.

1. The map shows two names for the river which formed the border between Sikh and HEIC territories. Upstream it’s the familiar Sutlej and downstream the ‘Ghara’. Was the latter an alternative, an accepted change of name on a different section of the river or a mistake by the map maker?

2. There is a direct road marked between ‘Ferozpoor’, where the 32nd were stationed before the campaign and ‘Doburji’ on the river. Any knowledge of this place? Could it have been the ‘Ghat’ where the 32nd embarked? I wonder if Waterfield (who had been in India since 1846 and presumably knew the word ‘ghat’ by then) mixed it up with the name Ghara of the river. Or perhaps it was even a mistake by the editors of his manuscript, I haven’t seen the original.

3. The one probable coincidence between the names of places is the map’s ‘Shoojuabad’ and Waterfield’s ‘Sujeebad’. Any idea of the modern name of this place? Is there a road towards the southwest from there to (approximately) the confluence of the ‘Ghara’ with the Chenab. This, given that the march was about 52 miles from the river to ‘Sujeebad’, would seem to be the approx. location of the disembarkation. Any places a likely candidate?

4. Waterfield mentions that they were surprised to disembark where they did. Apparently, the original plan was to sail to the confluence of the Ghara with the Indus, sail north up that river and approach Multan from the west rather than the south, which is what they did. How did other British units get to Multan? Given the heat, lack of water and number of casualties, was the southern route a bad choice?

As always, many thanks in advance for help given.
Les W.