Bandolier inquiry

[pukman]

Now i found this bandolier at a junk shop in New Zealand,and was wanting to know what pattern it is when ,where and who wore them

Regards Iain

bandolier 001.JPG (113.18 KiB) Viewed 717 times

bandolier 002.JPG (112.38 KiB) Viewed 717 times

[Stuart_Bates]

It looks like a modified 1903 waistbelt which had two ammunition pouches on either hip and left room to accommodate a bayonet frog, a water bottle, a mess-tin and an additional leather pouch containing a tin for "foot grease and rifle oil."

Looking at the rear of the belt we can see that the stitching for the middle four ammunition pouches is different to that of the hip pouches. Add to that that the hip pouches are a quite different design to the middle ones and the straps seem to be a later addition.

Stuart

[Stuart_Bates]

I found this illustration of the 1903 equipment in the Osprey book British Infantry Equipments 1808-1908.

This book also says that the .303 ammunition at the time of the 1903 Bandolier equipment was held in five-round chargers which is therefore at odds with the the two sets of pouches at the ends of the belt which hold the rounds individually. Both types were in use as shoulder bandoliers during the 2nd Boer War and many photos of these are contained within the above book.

Stuart

1903 Bandolier Equipment008.jpg (222.33 KiB) Viewed 706 times

[Stuart_Bates]

Here is a different style of the shoulder bandolier of the Boer War where the ammunition is held as individual rounds. This from my own collection.

Stuart

Boer War Bandolier 009.jpg (285.41 KiB) Viewed 689 times

[pukman]

Having been in contact with an Australian Chap.He has one the same as mine,and has seen another and he believes it is a Boer war period waist belt with supporting straps.His has issued marks to the New South Wales,for use by Mounted Infantry

[Stuart_Bates]

Yes, I agree that it is almost certainly of the 2nd Boer War and probably modified from an earlier belt as per my comments. As always the regulations were well behind what was in use in the field.

Anything goes when it comes to equipment and dress when on active service.

Stuart

[Albert J]

Hi Pukman,

Lumsden's Horse during the 2nd ABW wore an almost identical rig as you have posted. A modified '79 leather bandolier with shoulder braces. Photos show them with additional cartridge loops sewn to the front of the left and right shoulder braces in some cases. Thorneycroft's Mounted Infantry also wore a waist belt rig with pouches... but to accommodate the rounds for the Martini henry rifles they carried.

I have to disagree with with the assesment of it being a modified 1903 belt. The 1903 pouches were not stiched on, nor did it have the width indicated by your belt. I pulled an image off Karkeeweb for comparison.
Albert J

[Albert J]

Pukman,
I'm curious...Are the metal fittings brass or nickle? The glare can be unforgiving at times.
AJ

[Albert J]

I'd like to elaborate on something that caught my eye. Puckman's rig appears to be "tubed" to accommodate Martini Henry cartridges while Stuarts example is more reminiscent of .303. The tubes on Puckman's extend past the lower edge of the "flaps", larger, deeper, longer. However on Stuarts example they extend to meet the lower edge more in tune with the .303 round. This is not a knock on anything or anyone's post merely a comparison. Compare my examples to see what I mean... the top bandolier is dated 1882 and "tubed" for the Martini Henry (which I believe puckman's is also), the bottom example (same type as Stuart's) is dated 1900 and "tubed" for the .303. Onward....

For further confirmation in narrowing this down, Pukman...can you tell us if the studs for the securing flaps are mounted through a cartridge tube, or mounted between two tubes? And again the type of metal fittings used. I'll try to locate some pics of Lumsden's Horse as they also carried the Martini Henry in the early stages of the Boer War. It's not to say it couldn't be Australian or New Zealand, but at least we'll know what round it carried and can narrow down who went into battle with what weapon.

Albert J

[pukman]

Heres a few additional photo's.There was another belt with this that i didn't buy.It was plainer with two short connecting straps at one end.It was also marked with a NZ broadaarow for issue with the NZ army.It was maybe the acrooss the chest bandolier ,but the condition of the item was not great.

The other one pictured is the standard bandolier worn by a NZ soldier in the 2nd Boer war

002.JPG (152.04 KiB) Viewed 652 times

005.JPG (130.89 KiB) Viewed 652 times

007_crop.jpg (57.33 KiB) Viewed 652 times

[Stuart_Bates]

My bandolier is certainly for .303 ammunition and I found some pre-1916 rounds to populate it with, as shown. I did say that the "tubed" pouches were at odds with the 1903 equipment and I have to agree with Albert's assessment of it's not being a modified 1903.

It seems more likely that the 1903 equipment was based on this earlier style, although the four middle pouches do appear to be a modification.

Stuart

[Albert J]

I like Stuarts' observation of the four middle pouches mod. I would reason this to give two more points of articulation and better conformity to the waist. It would have been terribly uncomfortable otherwise.

Albert

[Stuart_Bates]

I would reason this to give two more points of articulation and better conformity to the waist.

Albert,

not to mention that it probably doubled the amount of ammunition being carried on that belt.

Stuart

[Albert J]

Here is a pick of Harry Morant , Peter Handcock, and George Witton. Handcock is wearing the same rig as Pukman's.
Nice find Pukman! (I couldn't bring myself to crop out Morant, and Witton).

Albert J

[pukman]

Many thanks to Albert and Stuart for their postings.I must say i suffered the roller coaster of collecting the unknown militaria(to me) for a few days,not knowing for sure if i had a dud or a good one.


I bought this as a punt as it was a little different from my other bandoliers and because i have never seen one before.I always thought it to be 2nd Boer war period ,but i did not know where from.I have been offered theories that its origins were from various parts of the globe,from Switzerland,Canada ,Yemen ,East Africa and India to name a few.

Now this post was pre-empted by a few hours of a post on a NZ militaria website( Militarianz) from an Australian chap who had one similar that was marked with a NSW stamp.Apparently they were worn by the NSW Imperial Bushrangers and some other Australian units that fought in the Boer war.Thankfully his photo's confirmed that this is Australian(even though i am a NZ miltaria collector)........I am now happy and relieved that my money was well spent.



Regards and thanks again Iain