Officers Pay

[Oswald Bastable]

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of resources on Army pay circa 1870, more specifically officers though information on NCOs would also be of interest.

[FROGSMILE]

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of resources on Army pay circa 1870, more specifically officers though information on NCOs would also be of interest.

Have you tried Brigadier L G Hinchliffe's book, "Trust and Be Trusted", (Published privately by the Corps Headquarters, RAPC, Worthy Down, Winchester, Hants, 1983)?

There is a good overview of financial matters with a list of resources at the bottom here:

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol141jb.html

[grumpy]

‘They served for honour and prestige, certainly not for money as their pay was far too small to live on’ Major RM Barnes.

I do have 1914 figures to hand, which can probably be adjusted by consulting a site which gives money value against year.

Herewith, after the internet has mucked up my tabulation, I am sure the bones can be picked out:

Daily rate* Extra pay for some appointments per day Wound gratuity, £ Wound pension, £ per annum Widow’s pension, £ per annum Child’s pension extra, £ per annum
Second-Lieutenant 7/6- 100 70 80 15
Lieutenant 8/6- Adjutant 5/- 140 70 80 15
Captain 12/6- 250 100 100 18
Major 16/- Senior major 1/- 300 200 140 21
Lieutenant-Colonel 23/- Commanding battalion 5/- 450 300 180 24
*some enhancements for long service, etc. A QM was paid 9/- rising by length of commissioned service and by increasing honorary rank, so that a major QM earned 15/-

[grumpy]

E Spiers "The Late Victorian Army" p 105:


based upon rates estabished 1806 [!] ....... 5/3- per day for 2nd Lt up to 17/- for a lt-col, this c. 1880.

Set this against fees £175 p.a. for two years Sandhurst, £200 basic kit infantry, plus Mess fees to include silver, wedding presents, Mess guests, band fund, a carriage and horses, and a servant/batman clothes and wages.

[Peter]

Oswald,

This should do the trick:

Royal Warrant for the Pay and Promotion, Non-Effective Pay, and Allowances of Her Majesty's Forces Serving Elsewhere Than in India, 1870.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=GgU ... &q&f=false.

Contains details for both Officers and NCOs.

Regards,

[Oswald Bastable]

I could have sworn I'd selected the email alert for replies

Thank you very much for the information chaps

[drailton]

I have heard it said that in the 19th century officers could not live the sort of life they expected on their army pay and that it may not have even covered their mess bills and it was therefore necessary for them to have a private income. If this is correct how did those commissioned to the ranks managein the army and in retirement? I have two instances. First, a Royal Horse Artillery NCO who was made Riding Master and who retired as a Honorary Major. I understand 'Honorary' to mean unpaid but surely not in this case. This man lived in the Officer's Mess and mixed with the gentlemen officers. How could he afford to live this life? When he retired would he, as an ex Honorary Major, have received the pension of a retired major? He seemed to live the life of a gentleman when he retired even though it may not have been a particularly prosperous one. Second, an RA quartermaster commissioned as an Honorary Lieutenant who, when he retired, had enough for his family to live on without taking other work and sufficient to pay for his son to attend a reasonably good school.

[colsjt65]

Can anyone tell me what the actual base pay scales were for officers? I'm particularly interested in 1850s-60s.

I know all about the cost of purchasing a commission and Queen's Regulations also regulates the proportion of pay that must be contributed to the mess each year.

I know what other ranks were paid, as I have a copy of a pay book of the period.

I've also picked up snippets like the fact that while in command of troops building the Great South road in New Zealand in 1862, officers received, in addition to pay - Captain - 10s, Subalterns and Quartermasters - 6s. per day.

But information of the base salary of each officer has eluded me.

Thanks
Bruce

[FROGSMILE]

I have heard it said that in the 19th century officers could not live the sort of life they expected on their army pay and that it may not have even covered their mess bills and it was therefore necessary for them to have a private income. If this is correct how did those commissioned to the ranks managein the army and in retirement? I have two instances. First, a Royal Horse Artillery NCO who was made Riding Master and who retired as a Honorary Major. I understand 'Honorary' to mean unpaid but surely not in this case. This man lived in the Officer's Mess and mixed with the gentlemen officers. How could he afford to live this life? When he retired would he, as an ex Honorary Major, have received the pension of a retired major? He seemed to live the life of a gentleman when he retired even though it may not have been a particularly prosperous one. Second, an RA quartermaster commissioned as an Honorary Lieutenant who, when he retired, had enough for his family to live on without taking other work and sufficient to pay for his son to attend a reasonably good school.

Honorary did not mean unpaid, it meant that it was not a commission holding the same status as that held by the other officers and did not bestow on the recipient the authority to command formed bodies in action unless all the other officers were somehow incapacitated. They were not promoted regimentally but by time and as part of an Army wide list, so they were never seen by their fellow battalion officers as rivals in a professional sense, but more as wise uncles from whom to seek advice.

The Quartermasters and Ridingmasters received special rates of pay according to their rank and length of service, but without a private income they were indeed not able to match the activities of their fellow officers with standard regular commissions. However, this was well recognised and they were not expected to undertake the activities or follow the social mores and appearances of a 'gentleman'. This may seem like unpleasant snobbery to our modern sensibilities, but it is the way things were and was considered normal by men who had been brought up within the close confines of their regiment and the rigid class strictures of that time.

It was also traditional for officers commissioned from the ranks to receive assistance from various sources. There would usually be a substantial and useful gift relating to his new standing from fellow members of the Sergeants' Mess that he was leaving and a retired officer who knew him as a younger soldier might often bestow his regimental sword. Similarly, the officers of the mess he was joining would invariably club together to purchase as a 'welcome' (gift) something useful to help kit him out. Battalion tailors too would often complete or modify a uniform at cost price. In short it became established practice for everyone to assist with kitting out the 'new' officer.

Once commissioned he would usually live frugally when compared with the young officers and, with careful saving (and sometimes investment), he would often be able to provide for an education in a lesser public school for any sons that he might have. On retirement he could usually live fairly well having saved carefully and managed his affairs sensibly. The sorts of men who were commissioned in this way were usually exceptional individuals by default and thus endowed with more than a common measure of good sense and management.

[FROGSMILE]

Can anyone tell me what the actual base pay scales were for officers? I'm particularly interested in 1850s-60s.

I know all about the cost of purchasing a commission and Queen's Regulations also regulates the proportion of pay that must be contributed to the mess each year.

I know what other ranks were paid, as I have a copy of a pay book of the period.

I've also picked up snippets like the fact that while in command of troops building the Great South road in New Zealand in 1862, officers received, in addition to pay - Captain - 10s, Subalterns and Quartermasters - 6s. per day.

But information of the base salary of each officer has eluded me.

Thanks
Bruce

Bruce, I seem to recall that forum member Grumpy posted some useful info on this subject relatively recently.

[colsjt65]

Thanks Frogsmile - on the nail as usual. Fantastic!

I should have looked harder first. The link in http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6332 to Royal Warrant for the Pay and Promotion, Non-Effective Pay, and Allowances of Her Majesty's Forces Serving Elsewhere Than in India, 1870. gives me everything I need. It even mentions advances for officers going on ships to New Zealand.

It should answer the original questions in this post as well.

Regards
Bruce

[drailton]

Thank you to those who replied to my query. You gave me just what I wanted to know.