Sudan War Veterans Association

[The_Old-English_Gent]

Hi everyone,

Sorry not to have been around for a while...but I'm back with a question I hope you all can help me with...

I got myself a Boer War veterans association badge from e-bay, and I wondered if a similar association existed for the Sudanese campaign veterans.

Was there an association? and did they have a badge, tie or other insignia?

Thanks for your help as always.

Kind regards,

[Mark A. Reid]

Good Evening;

What an interesting idea! Although I've had a fascination for the medals, etc. of the Sudan campaigns for many decades I have never seen or heard of an organisation formed exclusively for veterans of these various campaigns. If I could speculate, I would say that the concept of a veterans' " club " may be more of a 20th century idea. The fact that such an organisation doesn't seem to have formed until after the South African War, when a large number of non-professional soldiers participated, may also indicate that the concept was better suited to civilians who wanted to commemortate their service upon their return to Civvie Street. Regular soldiers didn't feel the requirement to get together socially with other veterans and partake of the flowing bowl, they could repair to their respectice messes any evening of the week and do it there!

No doubt a social historian and/or psycologist could provide reasons why civilians felt obliged to band together to relive their military exploits. The mass civilian armies of the South African War, and the subsequent world wars, had the resources of time and money to invent such an organisation with its attendant chapters, rules, ties, etc. and they have since blossomed with the Royal British Legion and RSL, RCL, etc.

I have a veterans lapel pin for the South African War Veterans' Association and it is quite pretty, I wonder what the Sudan veterans might have chosen to put on their badge; crossed spears superimposed on an empty water container, perhaps?

Cheers,

Mark

[crimea1854]

Mark

I'm not sure that I wholly agree with your argument, since there are a number of instances where Crimea and Mutiny Veterans met for dinner, all be it that these were normally on specific anniversaries, and not as regular meetings.

Martin

[Mark A. Reid]

Hi Martin;

Thanks, and I take your point. Certainly veterans have been meeting on the anniversary of " their " battles for many years. I believe that Shakespeare has Henry V mention that the Agincourt troops will one day reminisce on the anniversary of the battle, showing their wounds and drinking the health of the victors. I guess that my interpretation of The Old English Gent's query was about the establishment of formal organisations with their own by-laws, clubhouse(s), ties and secret handshake ( Sorry, I can't discuss that! )

I believe that it took the experience of large, mainly non-professional armies of the 20th century to actually form these groups. The establishment of weekends, as opposed to a 6-day work week, gave working people the time to enjoy hobbies, go on vacations and think about meeting up with their old comrades of earlier days. I believe that the South African War Veterans' Association might have been one of the first of these fraternal organisations but certainly look forward to learning more from other members of the Forum.

Just as an aside, my old regiment still meets on the anniversary of the Battle of Cut Knife Hill and former members of the regiment comprise a fair portion of the attendees. Much ale is consumed and those old familiar lines; What ever happened to ... and Do you remember the time that... are frequently heard. I'll bet these have been repeated since the " new " Mark II Spear was introduced to the Fourth Legion. Now there was a regiment, soldiers today are too soft ...

Cheers,
Mark

[The_Old-English_Gent]

Hi all,

Yes, as Mark says, I was thinking of more 'formal' organisations, along the lines of the Boer War Vets Assoc.

BTW, slightly off my own topic here...is your Boer War badge the one with the covered wagon Mark? That's the one I have.

With regards to the idea that 'citizen soldiers' are keener than professionals to form associations; my two pennies worth is that it allows them to remind themselves, when they return to their offices, factories and shops, of what feats they are capable of. Maybe, as you say, the mess fulfilled that function for regulars, and anyway, they didn't return to mundane day jobs.

Thanks to you all for your replies...lets hope even more comes up!

p.s. I have opened a topic on the Boer War Veterans Association on the Boer War thread...please take a look

[Mark A. Reid]

Hello again;

Yes, the example which I have is circular with a central devise that incorporates a covered wagon flanked by some sort of vegetation ( ? ), with the embossed legend above, reading from top to bottom, SOUTH AFRICAN/WAR VETERANS ASSOCIATION. The top line is on yellow enamel while the second is on red enamel. The dates 1899-1902 are embossed at the bottom on blue enamel. There is no maker's information on the reverse but the number 37 is stamped at the top centre.

Cheers,

Mark

[The_Old-English_Gent]

I liked it so much I added it as my avatar!

Though admittedly this is a photo from the net...mine isn't so shiny!

[Khartoum98]

Dear all,

There was indeed a 9th Sudanese Officers' Association (Sudanese, no British officers as they were seconded to the Sudanese Regiments and returned to their parent regiments after their tour of duty ended. In this I am talking about pre 1922 before the SDF. My aunt and mother both told me they were taken along to the barracks in Omdurman as young girls to see their grandfather, (my great grandfather an ex-9th Sudanese Officer (served 1896-1939) My grandfather, his son, was in the SDF and fought the Italians in 1940.

I enlose a picture of such a reunion in c.1953 with my grandfather sitting on the right of the Sergeant's lady.

Khartoum98

PS By the way, in Facebook, there is a Sudanese forum runs a nice Sudanese lady I think from Khartoum, named OLD SUDANESE PHOTOS and there are a lot of people who post photos from the Mahdiya and post reconquest. Mostly in Arabic, but if you write in English, everyone will welcome you.