Unknown Crimean soldier - 11th Hussars uniform???

[Riahen]

Hello

I have posted this photo of an unknown family member from our family album on Rootschat and it is arousing different opinions as to what the uniform the soldier is wearing might be. I was recommended to post it for the experts over here to have a look and see if anyone can identify it for me. It appears to be Crimean war period or shortly prior, all agree it is a Hussar uniform - the debate is the a couple think it is the 11th hussars, others are not so sure - and if not which one is it? The difference from the typical 11th hussar uniform are small but even to the layperson (Me) they are undeniable.

If anyone has any ideas and can say with some confidence what uniform the man is wearing I would be very grateful as it might help me to actually identify who these people are.

[FROGSMILE]

Hello

I have posted this photo of an unknown family member from our family album on Rootschat and it is arousing different opinions as to what the uniform the soldier is wearing might be. I was recommended to post it for the experts over here to have a look and see if anyone can identify it for me. It appears to be Crimean war period or shortly prior, all agree it is a Hussar uniform - the debate is the a couple think it is the 11th hussars, others are not so sure - and if not which one is it? The difference from the typical 11th hussar uniform are small but even to the layperson (Me) they are undeniable.

If anyone has any ideas and can say with some confidence what uniform the man is wearing I would be very grateful as it might help me to actually identify who these people are.

I notice you have not had an answer and I did not want you to think there was no interest. Speaking for my own part my knowledge of cavalry uniforms is less than that for infantry and especially so for this earlier part of Queen Victoria's reign. Added to that the early type of film does not reflect actual colours and contrasts very well. It also does not help that the basic parts of a Hussars uniform differed little between the regiments apart from 2 regiments with unusually coloured collars and cuffs and of course the 11th with its 'cherry' overall trousers. My gut feeling is that the man is not 11th Hussars but I can offer little evidence except that the Dolman and overalls in the photo seem too similar in shade. I enclose an image of an 8th Hussar of that period for comparison. Forum member tabony has good cavalry knowledge and I will be interested to see what his impression is.

[t100]

Hussars of the regular army during this period all wore yellow lace/braid. As most members will be aware, yellow lace appears quite dark in photographs of this period, which would suggest that the braid on this gentleman's uniform is white. If so, he is likely a member of a yeomanry regiment (I suppose the braid could be gold - if the man was a senior NCOs or officer - but I see no indication that this is the case).

I don't know a great deal about Yeomanry uniforms prior to 1880, but this style was current in a few regiments right through to 1914.

[jf42]

The lady that the hussar is standing beside is definitely dressed and coiffed in the style of the 1850s-60s.

[tabony]

I can't add to what has already been said but I do agree that the braid, as well as the trouser stripe and cap band seem to be white. So, I also think yeomanry regiment.
It's a beautiful portrait, though it's a shame nothing was written on the back.

Martin

[FROGSMILE]

Looking at his apparent (relatively mature) age, the fact that he has no medals would also add credence to the theory that he might well be a member of the local yeomanry.

[crimea1854]

Came across the following site, particularly interesting for Yeomanry Uniforms:

http://www.hussards-photos.com/UK_home.htm

Martin

[FROGSMILE]

Came across the following site, particularly interesting for Yeomanry Uniforms:

http://www.hussards-photos.com/UK_home.htm

Martin

Yes the man in our OP looks to be in a uniform very similar to that worn by the Yorkshire Hussars and the Leicestershire Hussars.

[Riahen]

Thank you all - that's an enormous help. You are all so knowledgable about this!

I feel a lot closer on this now. It's is a lovely picture - one of many unidentified people in a large album of photos that I can roughly date given what I about styles of photography and hair/dress etc but it includes members of several sides of the family so it's a slow business.

Maybe I can find information on those regiments to get me there on this one

[Riahen]

Hello All

I have checked that site and this uniform is an exact match for the pre-1895 uniform of a Yorkshire Hussar in undress.

Thanks for getting me there - at least now know what he was

Ria

[Riahen]

This is amazing! I found a website with a PDF about the history of the regiment and the personnel lists for the period. Bingo. The birth family of the person I believe owned this album was the Walker family in Goldsborough (near Knaresborough) and I found in the PDF that the regiment had a Knaresorough troop with two members of the Goldsborough Walkers in it. One, William Walker, was the Seargent Major and another was John Walker, a private.

Now if I could just figure out whether the uniform is a Seargent Major or a private I'd have an identity for this fella!

Amazing how fast this has come together!

[FROGSMILE]

This is amazing! I found a website with a PDF about the history of the regiment and the personnel lists for the period. Bingo. The birth family of the person I believe owned this album was the Walker family in Goldsborough (near Knaresborough) and I found in the PDF that the regiment had a Knaresorough troop with two members of the Goldsborough Walkers in it. One, William Walker, was the Seargent Major and another was John Walker, a private.

Now if I could just figure out whether the uniform is a Seargent Major or a private I'd have an identity for this fella!

Amazing how fast this has come together!

Ria, a troop sergeant major at that time had 4 stripes and a crown on his right upper arm and his uniform was closer to the quality of an officers with a degree of silver lace around his pill box forage cap and collar and cuffs, and silver frogging on his Dolman jacket. The regimental sergeant major had a similar badge, but with the stripes inverted and worn on the lower right cuff (it meant that on promotion the same badge could be used, but merely moved and re-positioned). As these things seem to be absent I believe it likely that he is a Private.

I enclose a photo of a Yorkshire Hussars officer’s part uniform, comprising of full dress jacket, waistcoat and forage cap. The uniform is dark blue melton cloth edged with silver braid and lacing, this pattern was introduced around 1843. The full dress jacket retains all 121 of it silver buttons and the pink quilted lining of the jacket. The waistcoat is decorated with silver braid work to the front with a plain silk back and white polished cotton liner. The Officer’s forage cap has oakleaf lace around the body with piping to the crown. The leather peak is embroidered denoting the rank of Lieutenant. I also an enclose a photo of a sabretache.

The Yorkshire Hussars were formed in 1794, one of the Volunteer Yeoman Cavalry units intended to defend Britain against a feared invasion by the revolutionary French, also be called upon to deal with civil disorder within the country.

Originally the The 2nd or Northern Regiment of West Riding Cavalry they were designated Hussars in 1819.

In 1864 the tile "Princess of Wales's Own" was conferred on the regiment. The regiment fought in the South African War of 1899, providing the 9th Company of the 3rd Battalion of Imperial Yeomanry and, along with men of the Yorkshire Dragoons, formed the 66th Company

From 1908, the regiment's four squadrons (converted from 8 Troops in 1896) were based at Leeds, York, Knaresborough, & Middlesborough.

[Riahen]

Thank you again

This suggests it is John Walker. I have been researching tonight and he was the blacksmith in Goldsborough - b 1817 which fits within my guesstimate of his age in this photo. I knew the blacksmith was a Walker already but had not found a connection to my ancestor.

It's been an amazing night! I followed leads through both possible names and found the both led to the same family, so were very likely brothers, and I think it is likely their parents were my great great great great grandparents! We'd really been struggling to find the parentage of my gt x3 grandfather and I think this breakthrough has both identified the man in the picture and, by following up, found the family! It's amazing what one connection can do!

Thank you so much!

[Stuart_Bates]

I agree that it is the Yorkshire Hussars but why is he wearing the cross-belt from the right shoulder? And what is that item on the cross-belt in the middle of his chest?

The pill-box cap was scarlet (with white band for ORs) although the band and trumpeters had a Garter blue cap.

Stuart

[FROGSMILE]

I agree that it is the Yorkshire Hussars but why is he wearing the cross-belt from the right shoulder? And what is that item on the cross-belt in the middle of his chest?

The pill-box cap was scarlet (with white band for ORs) although the band and trumpeters had a Garter blue cap.

Stuart

I am surmising that the photo was arranged specifically to show off his new uniform when first he had it. One can imagine how much of a swanky event this was for the average countryman with his two suits, one for working and one for church. It seems likely that in his ignorance he suspended his 'pouch and carbine belt' across the wrong shoulder. The object in the centre of his chest appears to be a buff leather 'cap pocket' for percussion caps. These were issued in 1857 for fitting to the pouch and carbine belt and retained until the Snider Enfield Carbine was issued in the late 1860s, thus helping to date the photo.