the household cavalry at Kassassin

[fantomark]

Hi, All!

I have been requested tu supply fome advice to help in the modelling of a series of model figures representing the Household Cavalry composite Regiment at Kassassin .

While I have found most of the information i need , thre are still a couple of points about which I am not too sure concerning the Horse furniture, namely:

1 - Leather colour: were reins etc. Brown leather ?, or is Black leather also possible ?

2 - what was carried on campaign behind the saddle? Just a plain blanket (in this case: Brown, Grey or Blue Grey?) or a VALISE?
If it was the Valise , does anybody know the colour and the valise-end markings for the diferent units (1st and 2nd Life Guards and the Royal horse Guards) of the Household Cavalry composite Regiment?

....Well, I know that this is a difficult one!

Cheers!

Marco

[fantomark]

ooops!

I have just examined again a couple of well know Kassassin images from the ILN.

in these prints (attached) , the Cavalry seems to have a roll at the back of the saddle, instead of the valise.
I presume that if this is the cloak being carried at the back of the saddle e instead of in front, then it should be the dark blue cloak , if instead the roll is just an extra blanket, then I would imagine that virtually any shades of grey or brown would be possible....

Cheers!

marco

[Mark A. Reid]

Ciao Marco!

I know ab-so-lute-ly nothing about the cavalry, being an ex-infantry type, but I may be able to help. For what it's worth, the Adjutant-General's Corps Museum in Winchester ( UK ) has a full-size, high-realism mannequin of a Military Mounted Police soldier during the 1882 Egypt campaign. He has his sturdy steed with him and the horse furniture is universally brown. To my untrained eye the tack looked quite good, right down to the martingale badge on the horse's chest. A dark, blue-grey blanket is rolled behind the saddle, but without a cover.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this figure but the rest of the exhibitions seemed to be of a high quality. I will send you an email with a photo of the mannequin, and his horse, immediately after posting this message. By the way, have you thought about contacting the Household Cavalry Museum?

Best Regards,

Mark

[fantomark]

Thanks Mark!!

I have also just written to your personal e-mail!

Cheers!

Marco

[tabony]

As you know I served in The Life Guards so this is of personal interest to me.
The bridle that was worn was the black Household Cavalry pattern that is still used today for Queen's Life Guard etc. Along with the martingale and crouper. The Household Cavalry martingale badge is the lion and crown surounded by the words "Peninsula" and "Waterloo", the line pattern is the "VR" cypher. The saddle was again a Household Cavalry pattern but unless you want to suiper detail the model any english saddle will do. The saddle blanket was blue. The regimental coloured cloak (1LG= red 2LG= red RHG= blue) was carried over the front arch of the saddle, with a brown rolled blanket carried on the fans, behind the seat. A bucket for the martini carbine was carried on the off side and a shoe case on the near.

Hear are some contempory illustrations and a picture of the present day saddlery used by the "monkey men"

Martin

[tabony]

Some more.

Martin

[tabony]

This is the Household Cavalry troopers saddle, used from about 1870 until the first adoption of the universal pattern saddle in 1898.

Martin

[fantomark]

As you know I served in The Life Guards so this is of personal interest to me.
The bridle that was worn was the black Household Cavalry pattern that is still used today for Queen's Life Guard etc. Along with the martingale and crouper. The Household Cavalry martingale badge is the lion and crown surounded by the words "Peninsula" and "Waterloo", the line pattern is the "VR" cypher. The saddle was again a Household Cavalry pattern but unless you want to suiper detail the model any english saddle will do. The saddle blanket was blue. The regimental coloured cloak (1LG= red 2LG= red RHG= blue) was carried over the front arch of the saddle, with a brown rolled blanket carried on the fans, behind the seat. A bucket for the martini carbine was carried on the off side and a shoe case on the near.

Hear are some contempory illustrations and a picture of the present day saddlery used by the "monkey men"

Martin

Hi, Martin!

many thanks this then settles the matter!
No valise, then! That's acctually better and it will make painting easier and quicker!
Incidentally, it is interesting to know that the saddle blanket was blue and the other blanket rolled at the back of the saddle was brown..I thought that both would be a blur grey..
But you are the Cavalryman and I will have the model painted as per your suggestions!

Thanks again!

Cheers!

marco

Cheers!

Marco

[FROGSMILE]

As you know I served in The Life Guards so this is of personal interest to me.
The bridle that was worn was the black Household Cavalry pattern that is still used today for Queen's Life Guard etc. Along with the martingale and crouper. The Household Cavalry martingale badge is the lion and crown surounded by the words "Peninsula" and "Waterloo", the line pattern is the "VR" cypher. The saddle was again a Household Cavalry pattern but unless you want to suiper detail the model any english saddle will do. The saddle blanket was blue. The regimental coloured cloak (1LG= red 2LG= red RHG= blue) was carried over the front arch of the saddle, with a brown rolled blanket carried on the fans, behind the seat. A bucket for the martini carbine was carried on the off side and a shoe case on the near.

Hear are some contempory illustrations and a picture of the present day saddlery used by the "monkey men"

Martin

Hi, Martin!

many thanks this then settles the matter!
No valise, then! That's acctually better and it will make painting easier and quicker!
Incidentally, it is interesting to know that the saddle blanket was blue and the other blanket rolled at the back of the saddle was brown..I thought that both would be a blur grey..
But you are the Cavalryman and I will have the model painted as per your suggestions!

Thanks again!

Cheers!

marco

Cheers!

Marco

Excellent Marco, I knew that Martin would be able to give you a categoric answer.

Question for Martin: Were the brass badges on the head bridle band and the crupper of the same size and pattern? I ask because I noticed the Line VR pattern amongst the debris found outside Maiwand and photographed and posted on the separate thread here.

[tabony]

Here's a small picture of a group of trooper from around the same time. The head kit is the same as the one currantly in use, and as you can see this is for every-day use e.g drill order or campaign.
I have a line pattern "VR" laying around some where and I would say it's just about the same size as a HCR pattern.
By the way Marco notice no buff cross belt, as is often seen in pictures and models. As to the blankets the Household Cavalry often sourced kit seperatly to the line.

Martin

[Eric CL]

I have made some research on the appearance of the Household Cavalry in Egypt, I will dig the informations I had gathered at the time.

As for the pouch belt, it seems that they carried it when they landed, but it was later discarded. Unfortunately, the question remained wether it was before or after Kassasin (remember that the last picture was taken at the return of the unit in England).

[tabony]

We were told it was stored before any fighting because it was useless! I don't know wether that's written down in the regimental archives or an anecdote that has been past on through the years. Note that the trooper with the carbine has his cross belt in the picture of the horses being unloaded at Alexandria.
I'd be interested to see what you have.
Martin