Handguns: British pistols used from the 1860s

[sorrell94]

hi
i have recently had what i believe to be a webley pistol fall into my possession for a distant relative however im unable to really I.d it but i believe its British army and late Victorian. Has anyone got any pictures or descriptions or just the names of the pistols used by the British army from around 1860 to the beginning of ww1 please.
thanks jake

[Mark]

Jake

Can you post a photo of your pistol and we will most likely be able to tell you what it is.

Mark

[GrantRCanada]

Yes .... there were many different models of Webley (and other British-made) revolvers during that time-frame, and it would not be very practical to try to post images of them all.

It would be much easier if you posted one or more good-quality photos of your revolver ....

[sorrell94]

sorry i am trying but i havant got a way of uploading the photos should be able to put them up tommorow

[sorrell94]

hi ive attatched the best photo i could get of the revolver

[ED, in Los Angeles]

What are the markings on the grips? What are the Markings on the gun?

[sorrell94]

you cant really make em out to be honest theres a diamond with a screw in it on the handle and a stamp which looks like a H on it

[QSVC]

Hello,

Looking at the photograph, I'm thinking it looks to be a Smith & Wesson, a commercial model as its nicely made, blued metalwork, checkered grips, etc. It seems similar to the WW2 Victory model so I'd be inclined to think from around that era or postwar.

But I know far from everything so am more than willing to be convinced otherwise.

Robert

[ED, in Los Angeles]

Go to gunsamerica.com and put - smith & wesson british military - in the search box. I think it is a "Smith & Wesson Military and Police Model". I really do not know much about Smith & Wessons. Yours has a shorter barrel. If your gun has no marks, that is very unusual. Could be a Belgian knock-off. The Belgians did cheap copies of all famous handguns for sale at reduced prices in the late 19th/early 20th century.

[Webley Bullpup]

Hello,

Looking at the photograph, I'm thinking it looks to be a Smith & Wesson, a commercial model as its nicely made, blued metalwork, checkered grips, etc. It seems similar to the WW2 Victory model so I'd be inclined to think from around that era or postwar.

But I know far from everything so am more than willing to be convinced otherwise.

Robert

I agree that it looks like a Smith of that era. It's a swing-out cylinder model. I don't believe British military revolvers ever used same: didn't they move directly from the break-open .38 Webley, to the 9mm Browning M-35?

Jim

[GrantRCanada]

I agree that it looks like a Smith of that era. It's a swing-out cylinder model. I don't believe British military revolvers ever used same: didn't they move directly from the break-open .38 Webley, to the 9mm Browning M-35?

British officers (the primary handgun users) were required to provide their own handgun (and all other kit and uniforms) at personal expense .... and were free to have whatever suitable and serviceable handgun they desired. Although they tended to prefer British-made handguns, many acquired them from other countries, including American-made revolvers

As for official patterns of service revolvers (which were for issue to Other Ranks deemed to require a pistol, not for officers) leaving aside the many London-made Colt Model 1851 percussion revolvers acquired during the 1850's, the War Department did not adopt any non- British handgun as even "substitute standard" until World War I. Starting in 1915 (IIRC) they purchased many Colt Model 1911 pistols, and S&W and Colt revolvers, because Webley couldn't hope to keep up with the vastly increased demand for handguns. (At the start of WWI the official service pistols were the .455 Webley Mark V revolver for Army issue.... soon supplanted by the Mark VI ..... and .455 Webley self loading pistol for Naval service.)

To my eye, this revolver has the appearance of one of the early 20th century S&W and Colt revolvers, rather than a Victorian-era piece. However, without a better picture or some idea of the markings, I am unable to say much more.

(The .380 No. 2 Enfield revolver was not adopted until the 1930's. Despite the tendency of so many to refer to any British revolver as a Webley, this revolver was designed, and produced, at Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield. With the increased demand for handguns in WWII, the No. 2 Enfield was produced by a few other companies as well .... and the British Government did acquire a considerable number of a similar .380 Webley revolver .... but, of course, all this is well past the time-frame of the Forum.)

[Brit.BulldogOwner]

I'm betting on it being a WWII S&W Victory Model. The 4"bbl suggests an American gun (in .38 spl. cal). The lanyard ring certainly points toward military issue.

Mine has a 5" bbl and is chambered in the Brit. .38/200 cal. (American .38 S&W cal.) with Canadian inspection marks. It is a great shooter.

Checking the caliber would clear up some of the confusion. Additionally it should have both American (S&W) markings on it AND Brit. or Canadian inspection marks if it is a lend-lease gun.

Doc in Arizona

[docL]

I do not think it is a victory model, or anything of that era. The ejector rod is totally different, and doesn't have the typical under-barrel latch of the WW2 era and later production. I would wonder if this was a Military and Police 1899 model, though again the ejector rod does not look exactly right. If there are really NO markings on it (i.e. on the barrel, behind the thumb release, or at the inside of the cylinder), then I would definitely wonder about the possibility of it being a Belgian knock-off.

The lanyard loop would go against it's being a commercial S&W production (as versus military purchase), though I have seen some of these retrofitted, especially for the lend-lease program.

A close-up photo of the end of the ejector rod would help a lot, as would a good photo of the left side of the barrel and the left side of the receiver (close-ups).

Some measurement of size (or caliber) would also be a help-- From the photo, I can't exclude its being a Model 1917 in caliber .45 (though I still think it's a .38 as best I can tell from this photo). DocL

[Brit.BulldogOwner]

DocL has very sharp eyes. The ejector rod tip is indeed wrong for a Victory Model. I stand corrected. I have an old .32 Hand Ejector and a 1917 Model that share that configuration. Yet the barrel is short for a 1917 and the blessed thing just looks like a K-frame to me. Some idea of the scale and caliber would surely help.

And I'd not thought about all those Spanish 'copies' that used to show up so often -- usually in (of all things) .32-20 cal. Saw half a dozen or more in that cal. eons ago when working my way through grad. sch. as a Sheriff's Deputy here in Az. The apparent lack of markings seems to support the Spanish knock-off theory, though could also just be a heavy handed job of polishing prior to rebluing.
So rather than further inaccurate conjecture on my part I'll side with DocL and await further measurements, caliber, or whatever.
Doc G. in Arizona