Longarms: Martini-Henry used by Boers in the Boer war?

[kopje]

Thank you for that very concise report Doubled. I went over the rifle several tims with a powerful magnifying glass, and there are absolutely no markings except the two numbers I mentioned, stamped in front of the trigger guard, and a letter 'W'.

I don't know where this rifle came from, but I agree it never saw service with the British, and the chap who owns it is an old Afica hand, and although its provenance cannot be proven, I believe him when he says it was used by the Boers in the Second Anglo-Boer War.

With so many changes to the Martini-Henry, including converting calibre of some 34 000 of them, then converting them back to what they had been, changing the position of the sling swivel, changing the length of the lever, etc. then I gues the rifle in qustion is a weirdie and will remain so.

Thanks to everybody for their assistance with this.

[ED, in Los Angeles]

As has been stated, without further pictures it is all apeculation as to what 'kind' of Martini this is. But zuluneil made a excellent observation...This looks like a .303 Martini. The high front sight and thinner barrel give it away. Also, Neil also notes that the forend swivel swing is actually attached to holes drilled in the wood and not attached to the barrel band as is normal. Good eyes Neil!

[Doubled]

I did a bit of checking

The WR serial number is the Registry Number issued by the South African Police, WR for Weapons registry.

I think it would be well worth the effort to write Ron Bester to establish if this Rifle is Boer. Provide him with clear detailed pictures of the rifle and its markings and caliber. Remove the fore stock and look at the front of the action and see if you find a number there. That will be the rifle serial number.

ZuluNiel seems to think this is a .303. If it is is it very uncommon. I have heard of sporting Martini's in .303 but have never heard of or seen one in a commercially made Military pattern. That of course doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact Bester references a March 1891 W.W.Greener offer of Martini Henry and Martin Metfords to ZAR. It is unclear if the ZAR bought the rifles. I am not aware of any MM's in 450 Martini, only in .303. A quick browse of Bester's book does not show any other rifles that may have been chambered in .303, than the Martini.

In the Ammunition reports in the book, the Boers were buying quantities of Lee-Metford ammunition.

Th Boers bought lots of Martini' and one in .303 would make sense.

If this rifle is .450 Martini, it is a very interesting rifle, it is a .303 it is a desirable rifle. If Boer provenance can be established it is very collectible.

[kopje]

Thanks for that Doubled. I have given the rifle back to its owner but in view of all the interesting leads I will ask for it back again to do it better justice. Ii is .577-450 calibre, and armed with all trhe great information from this web I will have a better look at it when I get it back, and report back soonest
Regards
John

[Doubled]

Take some some clear detailed pictures of the markings on the rifle. Upload the pictures to something like www.Photobucket.com. Copy the the BBCode for the picture and post the code here. The picture will appear when you submit your reply.

[kopje]

Sadly there are no markings to photograph. As I have already said, I have been over the rifle thoroughly, and there is nothing except the numbers I have quoted. Incidently it is .577-450 calibre. It seems a real rogue of a rifle - does not quite fit in anywhere.

[Doubled]

Places to look for marks.

Pull off the fore stock look under barrel and in the barrel channel. Also look on the action face. If there is any dirt or debris on the front of the action, use a piece of wood like a tooth pick to scrape it away and see what might be hidden.

Pop out the breech block and look on it especially on the top for a very small mark that might even look like nothing more the a small pit or scratch.

Indeed there be may no markings. The markings can be very inconspicuous. The markings in the picture below appear on my Westley Richards 1871 patent rifle. The marking is less than 1/8 of an inch long and says Bowler...well all you can see is "WLER" I have had the rifle for about 5 years and have looked for the mark a number of times and only found it last week when some one else told me what to look for. I just recently learn that Bowler mark is seldom seen as a full mark.



You have two numbers that might be clues to identify this rifle. A letter to Bester might put you on the right track.

Personally I think it part of the large number of rifles sold to the Boers prior to the second Anglo-Boer disagreement.

One thing not commonly reported is that the English intercepted a number of the weapons destined for the Boers and turn them over to the Town Guards and other civil Militia. My Made especially for ZAR Rifle is marked faintly on the butt P.E.T.G. Port Elizabeth Town Guard.



Marks can be easily hidden by patination.

I advised a collector in SA on how to properly clean an old Martini he acquired years ago in Zululand. The dark old linseed oil had turned the stock almost black. After some careful treatment, the marks showed the rifle had belonged to the 80th of Foot.



Of course your vicars rifle may be, beyond the two numbers, mark free.

Yes I do get a bit passionate about these rifles.