Victorian Military Movies

[Matt Easton]

I recently finished watching the 10 part series Shaka Zulu and I heartily recommend it. The only thing I could find to criticise was that Edward Fox wears an 1827 Pattern sword in 1824.

Matt

[sidney7]

G'Day,

here is a link to some behind the scenes images during the making of 'Zulu Dawn"
http://www.milsurps.com/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=31
cheers

[Peter Ewart]

Matt

I also enjoyed watching it two or three years ago after receiving it as a birthday present. And I think I managed it almost in one go, somehow! However, while admiring the whole scope of the series, and some sumptuous scenery as well as some very good acting, it became quickly obvious that the makers of the film had not worried overmuch about sacrificing history in favour of good, dramatic TV. (I think it was televised on S African TV as a major series). I found many scenes to be almost laughable and the storyline generally departed into the realms of fiction, far removed from any reliable notion of history, even allowing for the current debate which continues on Shaka's role in SE African history.

The series seemed to rely very heavily on the diaries and memoirs of the Port Natal traders (Fynn, Isaacs and the others, much of whose writings have been seriously discredited) as well as on Ritter's novel of the same name in the 1950s. I was astonished at some other bizarre scenes, in which the aim appeared only to introduce something sensational - again, "good TV." It reminded me of some of the "historical" programmes which appear on TV these days under the guise of "documentaries." However, if one forgets all that and accepts it as fiction, I agree that it is a rattling good yarn most of the time. If you only spotted one sword out of place, it can't have been too bad on the technical side either!

Peter

[astrang1]

Hello,
It is worth checking out the version of the Four Feathers with Ralph Richardson from the 1930s. From the same decade there is Gunga Din, the Lives of the Bengal Lancer. If you want to completely indulge yourself there is The Charge of the Light Brigade (Errol Flynn and David Hemmings versions), Young Winston, Khartoum and 55 Days at Peking.
Best wishes,
Al

[Will Mathieson]

I may have missed a post explaining this, but in the beginning of the modern movie Four Feathers, officers charge with p1845 brass hilted infantry swords as if they were cavalry. What is the explanation for this? I did not know these swords were used this way especially due to the fragility of the brass guard.

[Mark]

Due to the popularity of this thread I have decided to make it a "sticky".

Mark

[ED, in Los Angeles]

Will and everybody...
The reason the officers of infantry charged with obsolete swords is the same reason that the Dervishes had 'Azande' swords from the Congo and swampy Bhar El Ghazal province of the Sudan; the movie is just a movie and absolutly no interest is apparent in any real life depiction of the period, (1884/85). The Red tunics on the British Soldiers and the "Fortress" at Abu Klea are pure imagination.The sappy, whiney, Harry faversham character, needing constant aid from his Southern Sudanese, Equatorial born Black caregiver in the Moslem Eastern Sudan was laughable. That Black dude would be an infidel slave!
The movie was inaccurate, but worse...it was not entertaining. I am willing to "suspend disbelief" for a couple of hours of film, but come on, entertain me. The 1939 Movie, was set in 1897/98, and had many inaccuracies too, but remember, it's only a movie. One of the highlights of this '39 film for me, is the short scene of harry Faversham docking from an arab dhow at what I think is the only color film of the port city of Suakin, the now in ruin, coral plastered Red Sea port that played a prominent role in the Anglo Egyptian Sudan War.
The film was made by Alexander Korda, the same guy that made King Kong.

[Jonathan]

I may have missed a post explaining this, but in the beginning of the modern movie Four Feathers, officers charge with p1845 brass hilted infantry swords as if they were cavalry. What is the explanation for this? I did not know these swords were used this way especially due to the fragility of the brass guard.

I think it was a rather fanciful moment, Will. Some P1845/54 swords had blades that were of cavalry length, so it would be possible. But in this case I assume it was simply because the film makers decided to have infantry officers charge as cavalry.

[Garen]

The film was made by Alexander Korda, the same guy that made King Kong.

Off topic... but I don't think Korda had anything to do with King Kong (one of my favourite films ) Merian C. Cooper was the chap behind that one.

[ED, in Los Angeles]

Yes Garen...You are right. I have no idea why I put Alexander Kordas name as a King Kong contributer. I do know this, Merian C. Cooper and 'Kong' partner Ernest B. Shoedsack did one of the silent "Four Feathers". I have the silent version...Don't bother with trying to get it. It is a pretty poor movie and needs restoration. BTW...Fay Wrey was in the Cooper/Shoedsack 'Four Feathers' (1929).

[Jonathan]

Members who use Netflix may be interested to know that "Zulu" is now available for instant viewing on personal computers and game consoles.

[QSAMIKE]

Just finished watching an old episode of Dr. Who..... Saved the life of Queen Victoria...... There were a number of Scots Guards in the show...... It was supposed to take place in 1874..... The guard officer was wearing only one medal...... A Queen's South Africa medal with a single bar...... At least it was a Victorian medal.......

Mike

[ED, in Los Angeles]

"The Naked Prey".

Though not really a war movie, it has all the values that a Victorian inspired movie should have. Taking place in the 1860's, 70's, or 80's, it is about an ivory hunting party in Africa that insults a local tribe by not paying a tribute for traversing through tribal territory. The hunting party is attacked and the Europeans and some Africans are taken prisoner. The prisoners are killed in very cruel ways except for one man, the safari guide. He is British (?) and the Africans decide he would make a great sport as a human hunt. The Africans strip him naked and give him a running head start before starting their hunt. The European, known only as "Man" in the credits, kills one of the tribsman and now "Man", clad in the dead Africans loin-cloth and sandles and spear and knife, spends several days trying to get back to civilization and has to constantly avoid his persurers who are now out to avenge the dead tribsman. "Man" comes across a village and steals food that night. The following morning, "Man" is awakened to the sound of a brutal Moslem slave raid on the village. He helps a young African girl avoid the raid and she accompanys "Man" for part of the journey only to leave for a fate unknown. "Man" kills several of his persurers and finally makes it to a British military base.

This movie came out two years after "Zulu" and has the same "action beat" as that film. This is a brutal film that has very little dialog. Most of the spoken parts are from "Mans" African persurers and their is no translation. And that is one of the strengths of this very unique movie. "Man" is alone and really has no one to talk to. The Africans are in a group and talk a lot. Between scenes, the film has visuals of animals eating other animals and lots of thorn bush imagery to set up the brutality which is part of this film.

This movie has scenes you will never see in a modern film because this movie was made in an era when Africans were still primitive and when Africa was still being utilized as a hunting ground for elephants. You see elephants being gunned down and butchered for ivory and meat. You see beautiful straw villages and in the slaving scene, the village is burned down. This is a real large village burning and not CGI (Computer generated images). Europeans denegrated and put to death before hundreds of cheering tribsman. A brutal slave raid in which woman are simply seperated from their babies to be left on the ground as the men a woman are put in yokes to be driven to slave market carrying their own posessions of the looted village. Lots of African nudity as in "Zulu". Could not do that today!!

Having said all this about the starkness of the film, it is also a very beautifly shot movie with African scene-scapes and flora and fauna. Yes, it is both ugly and beautiful at the same time. It is almost an art film.
My American DVD is on the Criterion lable which is a 'boutique' company that specializes in cult films and classic films that are in need of a lable. The film is re-mastered. The soundtrack is nothing but African drums, chanting, and sound effects. Thankfully, the DVD has a chapter for just listening to the soundtrack as you would a CD. Nice touch. The movie also has the sound of birds chirping throughout the entire film just like you would hear in Africa, or the hills and mountains around Los Angeles for that matter.The DVD comes nicly package with a booklet with a wopping 30 pages to it. This is a class act video. It is about $30 US so it is not cheap even on Amazon.

One of the actors in the film is Gert Van Den Berg who plays 'Ardendorff' in the film "Zulu". Cornel Wilde is "Man". Shot In South Africa, and old Southern Rhodesia and Bechuanaland.

[L. Braden]

Just a few examples of distracting flaws in some of these films:
Michael Caine with a thinly-disguised Cockney accent in "Zulu". (He's Cockney, but his character wasn't.)
Peter O'Toole bouncing up and down in the saddle in "Zulu Dawn". (Some would say he was "posting"!)
The utter improbability of Harry Faversham's redemptive exploits in the 1939 "Four Feathers". (Instead of just rejoining his regiment, he puts on an improbable charade, totally unlike the more realistic novel.)
In the 1968 "Charge of the Light Brigade", people speaking in a ridiculous non-Victorian (or any other) manner, uttering words and phrases invented by the screenwriter; plus some of the extras who are posing as, but not resembling, Brits.
Charleton Heston unable to sustain a credible British accent in "Khartoum". (Laurence Olivier "stole" that movie, just as Trevor Howard "stole" that ridiculously inaccurate remake of "The Charge".)
My vote therefore goes to the 1936 "Charge of the Light Brigade", because (unlike most other historicals) it doesn't pretend to be totally realistic, but opens with a disclaimer, so that the uninformed will have no illusions as to its authenticity; and because it redeems itself with consistently good acting and action.

[Matt Easton]

Michael Caine's character, Bromhead, was stone deaf in real life. I actually think it would have been profoundly amusing if Caine had played his character as deaf.

I recorded Kim (with Errol Flynn) the other day and intend to watch it over Christmas. It might be repeated on Film4 at some point over Christmas.