Can you ID this man? Military member of Order of the Bath

[Mark]

Hi all

I am asking this question on behalf of a fellow member over on the British Medal Forum as I think it stands a very good chance that someone here knows the answer.

Can anyone identify the General below? There was some suggestion it was Sir Charles Napier but others feel this is not the case?

Any ideas anyone?

Mark

[Unknownsoldier]

I thought Sir John Moore, but he died a year before the medal was issued (1809). Don't think it's John Ramsey either....

Tom

[Liz]

Mark

I'm no expert on the medals but the red cloak and the maltese cross medallion hidden behind this gentleman's hand are highly suggestive that he is a senior member of the Order of the Bath (Military Division).

Sir John Moore (1761-1810) seems implausible based on this portrait of him held by the UK National Portrait Galleryhttp://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/portrait.asp?search=ss&sText=Sir+John+Moore&LinkID=mp03154&rNo=0&role=sit. Some of the differences could just be a matter of the ageing process, but in the UKNPG portrait his nose is more regular plus he has brown eyes whereas I think your chap has blue?

General Sir Charles James Napier (1782-1853, 'Conqueror of Sindh') also seems implausible. There are a number of portraits for him, all them showing him as quite hirsute. Check out this collection of portraits http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/person.asp?LinkID=mp03249.

Admiral Sir Charles John Napier (1786-1860) looks to be a better match, see http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/82/38082-004-033004AC.jpg. You'll note the face is very similar, and the sideburns, dark eyebrows and Order of the Bath medallion are the same. I'm not sure why he'd be wearing a red jacket given his naval background but maybe it was court dress associated with the Order, whose mantle was also red?

Unknownsoldier also mentions John Ramsay. This could be a number of people - John Ramsay (1775-1842), a Lt-General in Indian Army; John Ramsay (1847-1887), 13th Earl of Dalhousie and naval officer; or Major-General Sir John Ramsay (1856-1920). I am inclined to discount them as I couldn't find any record of them being members of the Order of the Bath. However, I didn't do a comprehensive search nor could I find any decent images of them.

Still within the Ramsay family, another possibility might be General Sir George Ramsay (1770-1838). He was a senior member of the Order of the Bath, served under Wellington and ended up as Commander-in-Chief of British India. He also had a passing resemblance to our chap based on the few low-res images I've been able to locate of him. (Having said that, Admiral Sir Charles Napier would have a stronger claim based on the images I've reviewed.)

Does this help at all???

[maureenm]

Is the date of th e portrait certain?
Do Companions to the Order have similar decorations. The Cheshire Museum has portraits of General Napier who got his Order of the Bath after the Scinde campaign and he is quite distinctive in appearance.


I wish I could see the jpg. Perhaps Apple Macs are not compatible