BOWER family research

[stevebower1]

Dear Mark,

I'm glad I read through your posts before starting out! Well stated I am a new member about to start researching my BOWER family roots from my g-grandfather Willam Henry Bower (born 1839) who appears on the 1871 Census, age 31 as being in Stoke Damerel/ Raglan Barracks in the 2nd Regiment (of what I cannot find?), his oldest son William Henry Bower (born1871) who appears in the 1881 Census as a stoker in Vessels Kent HMS Pembroke to my Grandfather Herbert John who fought in the Boer war as a Trooper in the "B Division" South African Colonial Constabulary under Colonel Sam B Steele and Baden-Powell ( S.A.C) on his medals, and later in WW1 as a Gunner in the South African Heavy Artillery (S.A.H.A). I have these medals too-

I shall be grateful for any advice on researchers as I do not expect a Free meal

Kind regards

Steve Bower

[DavidB]

Hi Steve,
Few questions to begin with (sorry)!
- William Henry Bower born 1839. Born where? Do you have him in 1861 or 1881 census?
- William Henry Bower son born 1871. He was a Royal Navy stoker in 1881, age 10??!! Something not right there, either the birthdate or you've got the wrong chap in the census I'd guess. Again, where was he born?
-Herbert John Bower, SAC during the Boer War. You say you have his medals, QSA and maybe KSA I assume. Can you tell us which clasps, and the precise information on the medal rims?

Cheers,
David

[FROGSMILE]

Dear Mark,

I'm glad I read through your posts before starting out! Well stated I am a new member about to start researching my BOWER family roots from my g-grandfather Willam Henry Bower (born 1839) who appears on the 1871 Census, age 31 as being in Stoke Damerel/ Raglan Barracks in the 2nd Regiment (of what I cannot find?), his oldest son William Henry Bower (born1871) who appears in the 1881 Census as a stoker in Vessels Kent HMS Pembroke to my Grandfather Herbert John who fought in the Boer war as a Trooper in the "B Division" South African Colonial Constabulary under Colonel Sam B Steele and Baden-Powell ( S.A.C) on his medals, and later in WW1 as a Gunner in the South African Heavy Artillery (S.A.H.A). I have these medals too-

I shall be grateful for any advice on researchers as I do not expect a Free meal

Kind regards

Steve Bower

Steve, you can read about Raglan Barracks (Devonport) here: http://www.plymouthdata.info/Army-Raglan.htm

Stations of the British Army 1 April 1871

2nd Regt of Foot (1st Bn) - Belgaum (India) -

2nd Regt of Foot (2nd Bn) - Devonport (England)

Regt Trg Depot - Devonport

Regimental Details:

1. http://web.archive.org/web/200802011406 ... 2WSurr.htm

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Ro ... est_Surrey)

3. http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/sh ... /sh01.html

[stevebower1]

Hi David and others,

Some answers to your Questions about WHB (1839) and WHB (1871)
WILLIAM HENRY BOWER (1839)
1841 and 1861 Census inconclusive as I cannot link Willam Henry Bower born Bradford, Yorkshire (about 1839) - as I have seen on my G-Father Herbert John's original birth certificate, and his wife Mary Ann (born Blackburn, Lancashire, about 1845)- I cannot trace Mary Ann as I have no maiden name, marriage certificate, etc

1871 Census RG10/2132
WHB Age 31 Soldier 2nd Regiment, wife Mary Ann , age 26, Daughter mary Jane Bower Age 3(born Bradford YKS), son William Henry - infant under 10 months (born Gosport, hampshire , residing at Married Mens Quarters Mountwise or Raglan Barracks, Stoke Damerel, Plymouth? Devon

1881 Census RG11 / 1014 - Page 25
WHB age 42 occupation Billiard Marker (is this a trade?), wife Mary Ann Age 36, Children Mary Jane age 13, William H(enry) age 10, Arthur Age 8 ( born Devonport, Devon, Ernest D age 5 (born Ireland), Florence M(aud) age 3 (born Hythe, Kent), Percy infant 9 months (short for Percival- born 12 SEP 1880 in Elham, Hythe, Kent)-

1891 Census RG12/753 - Page 37
WHB age 52 Billiard Marker, Mary (Ann) age 46, Arthur age 18, Ernest age 16, Florence age 13, Percival age 10 and Herbert John, age 7 - The older children have already left the home.

WILLIAM HENRY BOWER (1871)- possible because of the Place of Birth and DOB
Apart from the abovementioned Census'
1901 Census RG/13/740 - Folio 89 Page 25 Vessels,Chatham, Kent
WH Bower Age 31 Stoker ( Crew- Navy Men) - born Gosport, Hampshire - appears to be taken at/on HMS Pembroke (3?), Depot Ship ( as I checked online - now a University)

There's a possibility that he was also on HMS Barracouta - cannot trace him further

HERBERT JOHN BOWER- my Grandfather)
Born May 1884 in Elham, Hythe (St Leonards) Kent to WHB and MAB
Served in SAC during Boer War - Medal is QSA with 3 clasps - Cape Colony/OFS and Transvaal - Regiment No: 1749 Rank 3/C Trooper - Notation on side of medal "1749 TPR H.J. BOWER S.A.C

WW1 MEDALS
Kings Medal A/SGT H.J. BOWER S.A.H.A
Medal - with winged Victory on front and "THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILISATION 1914-1919" on rear to GNR.H.J. BOWER S.A.H.A
No Regimental No: on side

Herbert John ended up staying in South Africa and starting our branch of the family

This is a long email- sorry about that- but I thought it best to provide answers in full

Hope that helps- I'll start researching 2 Regiment of Foot and I'm interested in what they did in Ireland where one of the boys was born.

All the best

Steve Bower

[crimea1854]

Steve

There are no Naval Service Records available for a WHB born @1861, Hampshire. If he did sign on there would be a record for him, so I'm not sure that your man was ever in the navy.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dwilliam%7clast_name%3dbower&catid=15&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*&sortspec=first%5Fdate+asc

Martin

[FROGSMILE]

Hi David and others,

Some answers to your Questions about WHB (1839) and WHB (1871)
WILLIAM HENRY BOWER (1839)
1841 and 1861 Census inconclusive as I cannot link Willam Henry Bower born Bradford, Yorkshire (about 1839) - as I have seen on my G-Father Herbert John's original birth certificate, and his wife Mary Ann (born Blackburn, Lancashire, about 1845)- I cannot trace Mary Ann as I have no maiden name, marriage certificate, etc

1871 Census RG10/2132
WHB Age 31 Soldier 2nd Regiment, wife Mary Ann , age 26, Daughter mary Jane Bower Age 3(born Bradford YKS), son William Henry - infant under 10 months (born Gosport, hampshire , residing at Married Mens Quarters Mountwise or Raglan Barracks, Stoke Damerel, Plymouth? Devon

1881 Census RG11 / 1014 - Page 25
WHB age 42 occupation Billiard Marker (is this a trade?), wife Mary Ann Age 36, Children Mary Jane age 13, William H(enry) age 10, Arthur Age 8 ( born Devonport, Devon, Ernest D age 5 (born Ireland), Florence M(aud) age 3 (born Hythe, Kent), Percy infant 9 months (short for Percival- born 12 SEP 1880 in Elham, Hythe, Kent)-

1891 Census RG12/753 - Page 37
WHB age 52 Billiard Marker, Mary (Ann) age 46, Arthur age 18, Ernest age 16, Florence age 13, Percival age 10 and Herbert John, age 7 - The older children have already left the home.

WILLIAM HENRY BOWER (1871)- possible because of the Place of Birth and DOB
Apart from the abovementioned Census'
1901 Census RG/13/740 - Folio 89 Page 25 Vessels,Chatham, Kent
WH Bower Age 31 Stoker ( Crew- Navy Men) - born Gosport, Hampshire - appears to be taken at/on HMS Pembroke (3?), Depot Ship ( as I checked online - now a University)

There's a possibility that he was also on HMS Barracouta - cannot trace him further

HERBERT JOHN BOWER- my Grandfather)
Born May 1884 in Elham, Hythe (St Leonards) Kent to WHB and MAB
Served in SAC during Boer War - Medal is QSA with 3 clasps - Cape Colony/OFS and Transvaal - Regiment No: 1749 Rank 3/C Trooper - Notation on side of medal "1749 TPR H.J. BOWER S.A.C

WW1 MEDALS
Kings Medal A/SGT H.J. BOWER S.A.H.A
Medal - with winged Victory on front and "THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILISATION 1914-1919" on rear to GNR.H.J. BOWER S.A.H.A
No Regimental No: on side

Herbert John ended up staying in South Africa and starting our branch of the family

This is a long email- sorry about that- but I thought it best to provide answers in full

Hope that helps- I'll start researching 2 Regiment of Foot and I'm interested in what they did in Ireland where one of the boys was born.

All the best

Steve Bower

1857.08.25 2nd Battalion, 2nd Regiment of Foot
re-formed at Colchester

1865 Ireland: Cork
1868 England
1873 Ireland: Athlone
1876 England

You can read about the barracks at Athlone (Victoria Bks during WHBs time) here: http://www.athlonelive.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=383

Cork (also Victoria Barracks)

Barracks for Infantry and Cavalry located on 'a commanding eminence NE of the city'. The Barracks were erected in 1806 by the late Abraham Hargrave Esq. and were later named 'Victoria Barracks'. In 1837 there was accommodation for 156 officers, 1994 men and 120 horses. The barracks included a 120 bed hospital and there was also a separate 130 bed military hospital in the southern suburbs.

You can read about the barracks here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... rracks.htm

[DavidB]

WILLIAM HENRY BOWER (1871)- possible because of the Place of Birth and DOB
Apart from the abovementioned Census'
1901 Census RG/13/740 - Folio 89 Page 25 Vessels,Chatham, Kent
WH Bower Age 31 Stoker ( Crew- Navy Men) - born Gosport, Hampshire - appears to be taken at/on HMS Pembroke (3?), Depot Ship ( as I checked online - now a University)
There's a possibility that he was also on HMS Barracouta - cannot trace him further

Let's focus on this chap for a sec.
- that above mentioned 1881 census is still an issue, doesn't add up
- age 31 in 1901 census would suggest a birth in 1869/70 rather than 1871
- if you look at the naval service records that Martin gave the link to earlier, there is a a William Henry Bower born 1869 (who would be 31 in the 1901 census), but he appears to be born in Hythe, Kent. By coincidence you have mentioned Hythe, Kent in the context of your grandfather Herbert, so I wouldn't dismiss this one completely.
Where does the HMS Barracouta possibility derive from? What's the source?

[SWB]

HERBERT JOHN BOWER- my Grandfather)
Born May 1884 in Elham, Hythe (St Leonards) Kent to WHB and MAB
Served in SAC during Boer War - Medal is QSA with 3 clasps - Cape Colony/OFS and Transvaal - Regiment No: 1749 Rank 3/C Trooper - Notation on side of medal "1749 TPR H.J. BOWER S.A.C

WW1 MEDALS
Kings Medal A/SGT H.J. BOWER S.A.H.A
Medal - with winged Victory on front and "THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILISATION 1914-1919" on rear to GNR.H.J. BOWER S.A.H.A
No Regimental No: on side

Contact Gordon Bickley in SA to get service papers, email address here: http://www.casus-belli.co.uk/index.asp?PageId=133

Regards
Meurig

[stevebower1]

WILLIAM HENRY BOWER (1871)- possible because of the Place of Birth and DOB
Apart from the abovementioned Census'
1901 Census RG/13/740 - Folio 89 Page 25 Vessels,Chatham, Kent
WH Bower Age 31 Stoker ( Crew- Navy Men) - born Gosport, Hampshire - appears to be taken at/on HMS Pembroke (3?), Depot Ship ( as I checked online - now a University)
There's a possibility that he was also on HMS Barracouta - cannot trace him further

Let's focus on this chap for a sec.
- that above mentioned 1881 census is still an issue, doesn't add up
- age 31 in 1901 census would suggest a birth in 1869/70 rather than 1871
- if you look at the naval service records that Martin gave the link to earlier, there is a a William Henry Bower born 1869 (who would be 31 in the 1901 census), but he appears to be born in Hythe, Kent. By coincidence you have mentioned Hythe, Kent in the context of your grandfather Herbert, so I wouldn't dismiss this one completely.
Where does the HMS Barracouta possibility derive from? What's the source?

David,
My error for not mentioning that in the 1881 Census they are listed as " Brown" I've been sure that the 1881 Census for William Henry "Brown and Mary Ann "Brown" is actually a transcription error as it clearly reads Bower. The children are listed on the next page and that may be why it wasn't connected. The names are consistent with those in the 1991 Census, where my grandfather's name appears.

If WHB ( born Gosport, Hampshire ) is age 10 last birthday then it's possible he was born in 1870. I shall see if I can locate the Birth Records and post copies. Thanks once again to you and Martin ( and others)

[DavidB]

There's a possibility that he was also on HMS Barracouta - cannot trace him further

Another snippet for you then. William Henry Bower, born Hythe, Kent, number 151147, definitely did serve on HMS Barracouta during the Boer War. He appears on the QSA roll, number matches.
So another reason to consider him as your man. Might be worth a few ££ to download his record.

[stevebower1]

There's a possibility that he was also on HMS Barracouta - cannot trace him further

Another snippet for you then. William Henry Bower, born Hythe, Kent, number 151147, definitely did serve on HMS Barracouta during the Boer War. He appears on the QSA roll, number matches.
So another reason to consider him as your man. Might be worth a few ££ to download his record.

I've attached a copy of ADM Records for WILLIAM HENRY BOWER b 12 July 1869, Hythe, Kent - but will keep looking for Birth Certificate for him as he is definitely listed in Census Reports from 1871 1881 as being born on Gosport Hampshire, so I may have the wrong person.

Q- were children born in Barracks listed under the Regiment Chapel or in Civil parishes? I should imaging there may be only a few in Gosport during this period??

[LisaToo]

Hi there, You queried about your g-grandfather being in the 2nd Regiment at Raglan Barracks “the second Regiment of what?” you wrote.
He was most likely to have been in the 2nd Battalion Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry. See this webpage on Raglan Barracks. http://www.devonportonline.co.uk/historic_devonport/buildings_historic/raglan-gatehouse/raglan-gatehouse.aspx

Regards, Lisa

[FROGSMILE]

Hi there, You queried about your g-grandfather being in the 2nd Regiment at Raglan Barracks “the second Regiment of what?” you wrote.
He was most likely to have been in the 2nd Battalion Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry. See this webpage on Raglan Barracks. http://www.devonportonline.co.uk/historic_devonport/buildings_historic/raglan-gatehouse/raglan-gatehouse.aspx

Regards, Lisa

Lisa, I know that you are trying to help but the 2nd Regiment (of Foot) was known as The Queen's and the OPs question had already been answered if you follow the thread from the beginning. At that time the first 25 regiments of Foot (i.e. infantry) each had two battalions, e.g. 1st/2nd and 2nd/2nd and regiments from 26th to 100th (by 1880) had just one battalion. The 2nd Regt of Foot were at Raglan Barracks at the time shown in one of the posts above.

It might help you to google (separately) the Cardwell Reform and Childers Reform and read the Wikipedia entry for a rundown on each.

Don't let this discourage you, all are welcome to post here and we all learn from each other.

[stevebower1]

I can confirm the following regarding WILLIAM HENRY BOWER born in 1839 - On the 6th April 1857, aged 18yrs he enrolled to serve as a Private in the 4th West York Regiment of Militia (No 2670). from his discharge papers it appears he signed on to the 2nd Regiment of the Foot on 1 September 1857 ( No 425) where he served continuously until 15th June 1880 when he was finally discharged in Hythe, Kent where he'd spent his last posting at the School of Musketry (transferred there on the 30th November 1875).

His total record of service was for 22 years /274 days of which 8 years and 267 days was time he served abroad. The overseas posting are given as follows: Malta 184/365; Corfu 5 215/365; 1 356/365 and Bermuda 2 142/365

From his re-signing and re-posting notes it appears he served in the 2/2 Queens (Own Regiment). There is no mention of his posting to Dublin, Ireland in 1874/75 where his son Ernest was born (see previous posts)

All in all he received 5 Good conduct Badges and received a Silver Medal, with a gratuity of 5pounds for Long Service and Good Conduct on1st July 1876. He was never wounded and received 4 mentions in the Company defaulters Book during his service.

All in all a pretty long service.

As soon as I work out what size to post the records I shall do so.

All the best, and thanks for the help everyone.

Steve Bower

[FROGSMILE]

I can confirm the following regarding WILLIAM HENRY BOWER born in 1839 - On the 6th April 1857, aged 18yrs he enrolled to serve as a Private in the 4th West York Regiment of Militia (No 2670). from his discharge papers it appears he signed on to the 2nd Regiment of the Foot on 1 September 1857 ( No 425) where he served continuously until 15th June 1880 when he was finally discharged in Hythe, Kent where he'd spent his last posting at the School of Musketry (transferred there on the 30th November 1875).

His total record of service was for 22 years /274 days of which 8 years and 267 days was time he served abroad. The overseas posting are given as follows: Malta 184/365; Corfu 5 215/365; 1 356/365 and Bermuda 2 142/365

From his re-signing and re-posting notes it appears he served in the 2/2 Queens (Own Regiment). There is no mention of his posting to Dublin, Ireland in 1874/75 where his son Ernest was born (see previous posts)

All in all he received 5 Good conduct Badges and received a Silver Medal, with a gratuity of 5pounds for Long Service and Good Conduct on1st July 1876. He was never wounded and received 4 mentions in the Company defaulters Book during his service.

All in all a pretty long service.

As soon as I work out what size to post the records I shall do so.

All the best, and thanks for the help everyone.

Steve Bower

Fascinating stuff Steve, he was very lucky with his overseas postings compared with many others. One of the duties of the Malta garrison was to furnish outpost duty in the Balearics so hence his time in Corfu. I wonder if he had any musketry qualifications as it was common for instructors to finish their time at the School of Musketry in Hythe, or alternatively he could have been engaged in general duties on the military staff there. It too was a fine and healthy posting with lots of fresh sea air.