George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

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George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby eamann » 21 Dec 2010 15:01

Hello all!

I am trying to find information about a George Magee, born approx. 1860 in Dublin city, who served in the army in the "East Indies" sometime between, say, 1876 (if he enlisted at the age of 16) and 1887. During his service there he had an accident and lost his left arm. He married in Ireland in January 1888 and gave "army pensioner" as his occupation. To my great disappointment he does not appear in the list of Chelsea Pensioners digitalised by FindMyPast.

Despite being approx. 55 years old and one-handed, George enlisted again in the Army in 1915. From a photograph of that period it looks as though he joined the Royal Irish Fusiliers and it has been suggested to me that it is probably in that regiment that he had served earlier. Apparently the RIrF 87th. and 89th. battalions were in Burma and India in the period 1876 − 1887.

Can anyone suggest how I might be able to find out more about my great-grandfather? Kew? RIrF museum in Armagh?

And any ideas as to why he does not figure in FindMyPast’s list of Chelsea Pensions?

Thank you very much in advance for your help!

Eamann

Brussels.

Can anyone suggest how I might be able to find out more about my great-grandfather?

And any ideas as to why he does not figure in FindMyPast’s list of Chelsea Pensions?

Thank you very much in advance for your help!

Eamann
Brussels
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Re: RIrF 87th./ 89th. Burma / India 1876 - 1887?

Postby crimea1854 » 21 Dec 2010 16:16

Hi

There is a Corpral G Magee, Regt. No. 1789, 2nd Battalion The Kings Liverpool Regt. who was awarded the Indian General Sevice Medal with 'Burma 1885-87' clasp. According to the medal roll he was invalided. This might be your man.

Martin
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby eamann » 29 Dec 2010 09:58

Hi Martin!

Thanks for taking the time to try and help me! Sorry for the delay in replying - out of action due to Christmas and all that that entails...

Where did you find that reference to this G. Magee? I tried FindMyPast and Ancestry.com but did not spot it.

Best wishes,

Eamann
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby crimea1854 » 29 Dec 2010 10:01

Hi Eamann

The info. was found on the recently added medal rolls available on Ancestry.

Martin
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby SWB » 29 Dec 2010 13:36

And any ideas as to why he does not figure in FindMyPast’s list of Chelsea Pensions?


Hi Eamann

Not every soldier's papers have survived. But you should also try ancestry's so called 'WWI' pension and service papers. There are hundreds possibly thousands of papers there for men who did not serve in WWI. Current thinking is that if a man's pension was active or looked at post 1914 then it got filed with what is now known as the 'WW1' papers.

Good luck.

Regards
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby eamann » 05 Jan 2011 19:19

Hi Martin and Meurig!

An uncle in the USA has just sent me scans of medals which he has belonging to our great-grandfather George Magee. These shed a lot of light on his military career.

As you can see from the images, his medals included a Burma 1885-87 clasp and a Green Howards medal. In case you cannot make out the details of the medal, it has the Princess of Wales' cypher "A" combined with the Dannebrog or Danish cross and topped by her coronet. In the middle of this you have the date "1875" and beneath "XIX". The scroll at the bottom says "The Green Howards ??ivd Yorkshire Regt."

Using this information I have searched the National Archives, Findmypast and Ancestry sites but have not found a direct hit for a George Magee.

Any suggestions on how I should I proceed from here?

Best wishes,

Eamann
Attachments
Burma clasp.jpg
Burma clasp.jpg (63.84 KiB) Viewed 1248 times
G.Magee Medal 1.jpg
G.Magee Medal 1.jpg (96.18 KiB) Viewed 1248 times
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby crimea1854 » 06 Jan 2011 09:32

Hi Eamann

What you need to do is get back on to your Uncle and ask him to send you the details engraved on the edge of the India General Service medal, this should provide his service number, name and regt. This will be in thin running script, and may require the use of a magnifying glass to read.

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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby eamann » 06 Jan 2011 11:07

Hi Martin!

That's great! I'll email him straightaway and come back with what he tells me.

Thanks very much for all your help.

Eamann
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby SWB » 06 Jan 2011 12:28

Eamann,

On the Green Howard's medal the bit you can't make out is "(A.P.W.O)" = Alexandra, Princess of of Wales

The 'A' in the cipher is for her first name, Alexandra.

Do you have a picture of the other face of the this medal?

Regards
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby eamann » 06 Jan 2011 15:39

Thanks Meurig for that additional information!

How come it is "APWO" and not "APOW"?

No, I do not have a picture yet of the other face of the medal. My uncle sent me two copies of the same face... I hope he will have time to send me an image of the other face before he goes into hospital on Monday next...

Eamann
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby gbaugh » 07 Jan 2011 04:16

APWO - Alexandra Princess of Wales Own
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Re: George MAGEE, Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby eamann » 29 Jan 2011 16:35

Hello all!

My uncle in America is now home from hospital and he has sent me the information that is inscribed around George Magee's India general service medal.

To my great surprise, given that George also had a Green Howards medal, the inscription says "1789 Cpl G. Magee,2d Bn L'pool R ."
Crimea1854 put his finger on him from the beginning!

Was there any link between the Green Howards and the Liverpool Regiment which would explain why George also had a Green Howards medal?

Does the fact that the word "King's" is not mentioned in the inscription indicate that George joined the regiment before it was called the King's in 1881?

Could he have enlisted in Dublin or would it be more likely that he emigrated to Liverpool, failed to find a satisfactory job and "took the shilling" there?

I have just spent an hour on Google trying to understand how British regiments were organised and named and the least I can say is that it is complex!

Crimea1854, if you still have a subscription to Ancestry, would it be too much to ask for a copy of the medal card you mentioned? Perhaps it would be better that I give you my private email address so that you can send me a file bigger than the 100ko allowed on the forum. If you are tired doing such favours, I will understand!

Looking forward with anticipation to your comments!

eamann
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby crimea1854 » 30 Jan 2011 15:43

PM and image sent.

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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby john ball » 07 Feb 2011 22:18

Hello Eaman,regarding your query about the two medals. The King's Liverpool Regt started life in 1685 as The Princess Anne of Denmark Regt. In 1751 the 8th (The Kings) Regt Of Foot, in 1881 The Kings (Liverpool Regt). As already stated the 2nd Batt 1885 shows them to be in Calcutta later the same year in Burma. The Green Howards raised 1751 as the 19th Regt of Foot, in 1881 1st Batt Alexandra, Princess Of Wales Own (Yorkshire Regt) Their postings show 1871-77, England,1877-81, Bermuda.Sorry to say no sign of any link between the two Regts No idea what the year 1875 on the medal indicates,but the xix must be a ref to the old 19th foot Regt.Hope this is any help to you.


Yours etc, oldloyal
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Re: George MAGEE, RIrF 87th/ 89th Burma/India 1876-87?

Postby eamann » 09 Feb 2011 11:55

Hi John!

Thank you for that useful information and sorry about the delay in replying
Magee.jpg
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.

I am intrigued at to why my ggfather had both a Green Howards and a Liverpool Regiment medal. Did he enlist first in the Green Howards, leave and then join the Liverpool Regiment? Was it common practice for soldiers to move from one regiment to another in the 1880's? Were there any special links between the Green Howards and the Liverpool Regiment?

I have just learned from the very helpful "Army service nubers" website that George Magee, whose regiment number was 1789, must have joined the Liverpool Regiment in the late spring or early summer of 1886.

Could he have joined either regiment in Dublin or would he have needed to go to England to do so?

Where should I now go to find out more about my ggfather – the Muster Rolls in Kew?

Another contributor to this thread kindly downloaded for me the accompanying medal roll image from Ancestry.com.

Thanks again to you and all the other people who have so kindly taken time to share their expertise with me!

Eamann
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