missing from muster rolls

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missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 04 Jun 2017 18:15

Hi all

Just wondering if anyone can help with a query.

In researching my GGGrandfather have been through all the muster rolls for the 2nd Bttn Rifle Brigade from 1853 up to 1871

He is on every roll with the exception of April to September 1864. In March and October he is on the roll in Meerut but disappears for these middle month.

Anyone any ideas why that might be, i can't find any annotation of him anywhere.

Any suggestions much appreciated .
Thanks
James
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby Frogsmile » 04 Jun 2017 20:24

jrdrury wrote:Hi all

Just wondering if anyone can help with a query.

In researching my GGGrandfather have been through all the muster rolls for the 2nd Bttn Rifle Brigade from 1853 up to 1871

He is on every roll with the exception of April to September 1864. In March and October he is on the roll in Meerut but disappears for these middle month.

Anyone any ideas why that might be, i can't find any annotation of him anywhere.

Any suggestions much appreciated .
Thanks
James


Have you checked to see if he is listed under sick/hospital? If not an 'effective' he would be listed separately. If units are based on the plains in the hot season, their sick were often sent to a hill station hospital, such as Kasauli, Simla, etc.
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 06 Jun 2017 13:03

hi,

Many thanks for the reply. hmm I couldn't see anything in the muster roll regarding being in hospital for this period - he is listed in hospital on a couple of occasions Sept 1859 (lucknow) and Oct 1860 (subathoo) but on these occasions he still appears on the muster with 'in hospital' in the relevant month column.

I guess if he was in Meerut at the time and was sent to the hills he might not appear but I couldn't find anything. I'll have another look ....

Many thanks for the help - much appreciated. ...
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby Frogsmile » 06 Jun 2017 13:28

jrdrury wrote:hi,

Many thanks for the reply. hmm I couldn't see anything in the muster roll regarding being in hospital for this period - he is listed in hospital on a couple of occasions Sept 1859 (lucknow) and Oct 1860 (subathoo) but on these occasions he still appears on the muster with 'in hospital' in the relevant month column.

I guess if he was in Meerut at the time and was sent to the hills he might not appear but I couldn't find anything. I'll have another look ....

Many thanks for the help - much appreciated. ...


Every unit had a hospital sergeant and regimental surgeon. If he was in the barracks hospital he would still be on unit strength and listed as sick, but if sent away to a hill station or Deolali then I think he would be listed separately. As you have implied he can't have just disappeared between those months, he must be in India somewhere.
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 06 Jun 2017 19:03

many thanks

i had this info taken form papers of the day re delhi sores .... the battalion ws stationed in delhi at the time ...

‘… Rifle Brigade; 2nd Batt – Delhi March 28 – This Battalion marched out of Delhi on Saturday last, the wing of the 38th having arrived on the previous day. It was quite distressing to see the number of fine looking faces disfigured by Delhi sores and strapped with plasters.
Delhi, April4 – The last of the Rifles went on Saturday morning taking with them what a punster would call indelible marks of Delhi city, in the shape of those woefully disfiguring sores that baffle the skills of the while medical services combined. ……it was painful to see the men, women and children of the Rifle Brigade as they marched out, still they were very little, if any worse than the 88th and 82nd when they left.
(Naval & Military Gazette and Weekly Chronicle of the United Services May 14th 1864)
‘…. The excess has been due in a great measure to the prevalence if the ulcer known as the ‘Delhi Sore’ in the 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade and in the 38th Regiment which relived it at Delhi in the end of march. The admission under the head of ‘ulcer’ in the former corps (RB) amounted to 368 in a strength of 912…..'


I also found an article in a paper from April 1856 relating to the hot springs at Sonah being beneficial to the to the 2nd Bttn rifle brigade in the treatment of the condition, Sonah is about 35 miles form Delhi although the article is a year later its reflecting on a past treatment so may fit the 1864 time frame he vanishes ....

'... the 38th will arrive at Subathoo about the end of February, and the men worst afflicted with Delhi sores will be sent to the hot springs at Joureh. As the springs at Sonah were found, in some measure, beneficial to the men of the 2nd Batt Rifle Brigade, it is worth while to give those near Subathoo a trial during the spring and summer months ....'

May be he was sent there to recover or assist in some way ... will have a hunt around ... seems logical if stationed in delhi, its close by, some were sen there and it fits the time frame ...
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby Frogsmile » 09 Jun 2017 11:42

jrdrury wrote:many thanks

i had this info taken form papers of the day re delhi sores .... the battalion ws stationed in delhi at the time ...

‘… Rifle Brigade; 2nd Batt – Delhi March 28 – This Battalion marched out of Delhi on Saturday last, the wing of the 38th having arrived on the previous day. It was quite distressing to see the number of fine looking faces disfigured by Delhi sores and strapped with plasters.
Delhi, April4 – The last of the Rifles went on Saturday morning taking with them what a punster would call indelible marks of Delhi city, in the shape of those woefully disfiguring sores that baffle the skills of the while medical services combined. ……it was painful to see the men, women and children of the Rifle Brigade as they marched out, still they were very little, if any worse than the 88th and 82nd when they left.
(Naval & Military Gazette and Weekly Chronicle of the United Services May 14th 1864)
‘…. The excess has been due in a great measure to the prevalence if the ulcer known as the ‘Delhi Sore’ in the 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade and in the 38th Regiment which relived it at Delhi in the end of march. The admission under the head of ‘ulcer’ in the former corps (RB) amounted to 368 in a strength of 912…..'


I also found an article in a paper from April 1856 relating to the hot springs at Sonah being beneficial to the to the 2nd Bttn rifle brigade in the treatment of the condition, Sonah is about 35 miles form Delhi although the article is a year later its reflecting on a past treatment so may fit the 1864 time frame he vanishes ....

'... the 38th will arrive at Subathoo about the end of February, and the men worst afflicted with Delhi sores will be sent to the hot springs at Joureh. As the springs at Sonah were found, in some measure, beneficial to the men of the 2nd Batt Rifle Brigade, it is worth while to give those near Subathoo a trial during the spring and summer months ....'

May be he was sent there to recover or assist in some way ... will have a hunt around ... seems logical if stationed in delhi, its close by, some were sen there and it fits the time frame ...


Yes, I think that treatment at the springs, requiring him to be away from his battalion would explain his absence from the normal roll, although his status would have been recorded somewhere on a list of non-effectives for the duration of his absence.

The sores relate to Cutaneous Leishmaniasis caused by sandfly bites, you can read about it and see how they looked here: https://web.stanford.edu/class/humbio10 ... aneous.htm. Salt water at the springs would have brought some relief. The sores were/are a common ailment for soldiers (and their families) in climates where sandflies proliferate.
Last edited by Frogsmile on 16 Jun 2017 12:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 15 Jun 2017 20:49

yes sounds truly terrible .....

i'll try and find the listing for non effectives ... any suggestions where to start, have been all through the muster ...

cheers
james
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby Frogsmile » 16 Jun 2017 12:20

jrdrury wrote:yes sounds truly terrible .....

i'll try and find the listing for non effectives ... any suggestions where to start, have been all through the muster ...

cheers
james


I am sorry that I cannot help further, but it might be worthwhile making general enquiries regarding the policy and procedures of that time at the Museum of Military Medicine: https://museumofmilitarymedicine.org.uk ... -enquires/

Caveat: Take care to speak/communicate with someone who has studied the subject and not just a volunteer museum worker, who might not be familiar with the procedures of such a long time ago and yet be loath to admit it.

POSTAL ADDRESS

The Museum of Military Medicine
Keogh Barracks
Ash Vale
Aldershot
GU12 5RQ

When: 9:30am–3:30pm (Mon-Fri)

Where: GU12 5RQ (Sat Nav: GU16 6DD)

Admission: Free
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 06 Jul 2017 14:13

Many thanks for the pointer - sadly a blank.

Have been back to the archive to the muster rolls and nothing. For the six month period April to September 1864 he vanishes, no name on the muster anywhere only for it to reappear in in the October muster and every one after that.

Have checked all other ranks to see if listed there and nothing. there is a lot of detail on the muster for all the men, dates locations and what they are doing if not at camp, hospital, sick, furlo, on leave, on detachment, on command , traveling up/down country, dead, demoted, transferred etc etc but his name just vanishes.

When it does appear on the october muster in the column for the October there is an entry that has been 'scratched out' and also one 'scratched out' in the November column. the size of the area removed mirrors the writing of the entry for the man above him so i am assuming that whoever wrote the muster just entered the information for the soldier above on the wrong line, seems a simple explanation.
It doesn't help explain where my GGGfather might be for 6 months sadly ....for all the other meant as far as i can see every other possible entry for not being present at camp is there.

The quest continues ....
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby Frogsmile » 06 Jul 2017 16:12

jrdrury wrote:Many thanks for the pointer - sadly a blank.

Have been back to the archive to the muster rolls and nothing. For the six month period April to September 1864 he vanishes, no name on the muster anywhere only for it to reappear in in the October muster and every one after that.

Have checked all other ranks to see if listed there and nothing. there is a lot of detail on the muster for all the men, dates locations and what they are doing if not at camp, hospital, sick, furlo, on leave, on detachment, on command , traveling up/down country, dead, demoted, transferred etc etc but his name just vanishes.

When it does appear on the october muster in the column for the October there is an entry that has been 'scratched out' and also one 'scratched out' in the November column. the size of the area removed mirrors the writing of the entry for the man above him so i am assuming that whoever wrote the muster just entered the information for the soldier above on the wrong line, seems a simple explanation.
It doesn't help explain where my GGGfather might be for 6 months sadly ....for all the other meant as far as i can see every other possible entry for not being present at camp is there.

The quest continues ....


Can you tell me if 'Detention' was listed as one of the categories. If not, that might be a possibility for the missing 6-months. It was and still is policy that any man sentenced to detention (military imprisonment) forfeits pensionable service for the period of his incarceration. That would explain a 'missing' 6-month period as it did not count as 'service' whereas other categories, apart from 'absence', do.
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 06 Jul 2017 18:52

Hmm no nothing about detention that i could see - would this be reflected on his service record, that appears unblemished, nothing on there that would suggest any sort of wrong doing. Six months also seems a long time so if detained for that long a demotion would surly accompany it ? .. but he was never demoted and had 5 good conduct badges. ... still a possibility though ... ill keep looking :-)
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby Frogsmile » 07 Jul 2017 00:50

jrdrury wrote:Hmm no nothing about detention that i could see - would this be reflected on his service record, that appears unblemished, nothing on there that would suggest any sort of wrong doing. Six months also seems a long time so if detained for that long a demotion would surly accompany it ? .. but he was never demoted and had 5 good conduct badges. ... still a possibility though ... ill keep looking :-)


Back to the drawing board I am afraid. It is inconceivable that a man who underwent detention would retain either, NCO rank, or good conduct badges.
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 07 Jul 2017 19:28

alas yes :-(
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby jrdrury » 14 Jul 2017 12:38

.....some one has just suggested to me that he might have been seconded onto an indian volunteer regiment as an instructor or something like that and would therefore be on the british indian governments pay roll ? and not the regiments ... a possibility ? if so is there any way to find out ? i know the Battalion had recently moved form delhi to meerut which maybe narrows it down a little.
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Re: missing from muster rolls

Postby Frogsmile » 14 Jul 2017 18:35

jrdrury wrote:.....some one has just suggested to me that he might have been seconded onto an indian volunteer regiment as an instructor or something like that and would therefore be on the british indian governments pay roll ? and not the regiments ... a possibility ? if so is there any way to find out ? i know the Battalion had recently moved form delhi to meerut which maybe narrows it down a little.


That is possible, but he would still have belonged to the regiment as his 'parent unit' and thus should have appeared on the unit roll as 'detached', otherwise they could not maintain track of him.
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