Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

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Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby Atheling » 26 Jul 2014 15:07

Now, I realise that these are not uniforms as such but I was really hoping someone knowledgeable on the subject might be able to help me out for a wargaming project that will be demo'd at Partizan in Newark next year:

Hi all,

I have a question.......

Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery? Note: Especially the Artillery Crews?:

British 7pdr gun with four crew firing gun.
Image

British 7pdr gun with four crew aiming gun.
Image

Artillery battery commander with pocket watch and Martini carbine-armed bombardier.
Image

I'd be very happy to hear of anything pertaining to the above question about the Artillery and the Second Afghan War :)

Cheers,
Darrell.
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Re: Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby mike snook » 26 Jul 2014 19:02

Darrell

Sadly not in their present form: it's the old puttees and helmet covers problem, both absent on these chaps. The gun is the 7pdr mountain gun on 'Kaffrarian' carriage, turned out by a coach building outfit in King William's Town, so of very limited utility. There is a set in the same Empress range with a 9-pdr however. Have you tried asking North Star and Artizan what their intentions are in respect of artillery? I'm sure you will know, but they have just done some British and Sikh infantry for the conflict.

You might be better off looking at Foundry's old Boer War stuff, which will at least have puttees, but on the down side will have the wrong equipment on. The limber set, however, is action packed (a Perry effort from the old days)...probably just the thing for saving the guns at Maiwand and that sort of thing. LIkewise Redoubt's new Boer War range. There is also a new Matabeleland gun crew by North Star Africa, whose slouch hats would have to go, but I can't immediately recall if they have puttees or boots on. All the stuff I have mentioned is illustrated on respective websites.

Regards

Mike
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Re: Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby Atheling » 26 Jul 2014 21:45

mike snook wrote:Darrell

Sadly not in their present form: it's the old puttees and helmet covers problem, both absent on these chaps. The gun is the 7pdr mountain gun on 'Kaffrarian' carriage, turned out by a coach building outfit in King William's Town, so of very limited utility. There is a set in the same Empress range with a 9-pdr however. Have you tried asking North Star and Artizan what their intentions are in respect of artillery? I'm sure you will know, but they have just done some British and Sikh infantry for the conflict.

You might be better off looking at Foundry's old Boer War stuff, which will at least have puttees, but on the down side will have the wrong equipment on. The limber set, however, is action packed (a Perry effort from the old days)...probably just the thing for saving the guns at Maiwand and that sort of thing. LIkewise Redoubt's new Boer War range. There is also a new Matabeleland gun crew by North Star Africa, whose slouch hats would have to go, but I can't immediately recall if they have puttees or boots on. All the stuff I have mentioned is illustrated on respective websites.

Regards

Mike


Thanks Mike- much appreciated. I reckon I could convert/model the puttees and pugeree with a special effort but the Foundry limber may well be called into action as you have suggested. I don't think the size will matter too much (one would hopeso anyway!) as they will obviously be separate from the Infantry units etc.

I'm afraid that Nick's not giving very much away as regards the NWF range as I did ask him a question or two at Partizan but didn't get very much back by way of info. Some NCO's for the Brits, Sikhs etc are badly needed too.

Thanks for you help,
Darrell.
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Re: Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby Atheling » 31 Jul 2014 11:34

Hi Mike,

mike snook wrote:Have you tried asking North Star and Artizan what their intentions are in respect of artillery? I'm sure you will know, but they have just done some British and Sikh infantry for the conflict.


i got an e-mail from Nick yesterday saying that Mike was very keen on finishing the range and he was asking me about artillery and the type of guns used in the Second Anglo Afghan War(?). I sent him your last post as a quote- I do hope you don't mind?

Do you have any more specifics on the calibre and type of carriages used? Same for the Limbers if at all possible.

Thanks,
Darrell.
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Re: Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby mike snook » 31 Jul 2014 14:37

Hi Darrell

ooo...that's a significant research project, when both sets of antagonists are considered, (and I'm not going to write a lengthy essay here on spec). I'm going to have to pretend that I haven't seen this!

Your approach is admirably honest and puts an onus on me to respond in similar vein. I recognise also that your query is thoroughly well-intentioned, but it nonetheless inadvertently seeks to draw me over the line I am obliged to draw between, on the one hand, being as helpful as I can, (time, competing priorities and goodwill permitting), to the private VMH enthusiasts who make up the membership of VWF, and on the other falling into the trap of providing gratis consultancy to commercial concerns or to individuals proceeding (sometimes covertly) from a commercial point of view. I do several strands of what I now fill my day with on a professional basis and have other fee-paying clients to consider, to whom I must of course be fair. Naturally I don't want to be in the business of pulling the rug from under my own feet either. Forgive me.

I will gladly reflect on the Maiwand chapter of Into the Jaws of Death: British Military Blunders 1879-1900 , a book for which I have already been (pitifully) remunerated! The 6 guns of Major George Blackwood's E Battery, B Brigade, RHA, were the standard 9-pdr RML of the period, with the horse artillery limber. The 'Smoothbore Battery' commanded by Captain John Slade RHA, consisted of four older, (smoothbore obviously!), 6-pounders and 2 x 12-pdr howitzers. These were guns which the British had recovered from the Wali of Kandahar's mutinous and recently routed wing of the Afghan regular army. Slade, ordinarily a staff officer, but originally Blackwood's battery captain, was given 17 NCOs and gunners from E/B Battery, (4 & 158 to begin with), plus Lt Faunce and 42 hastily drilled NCOs and men of the 66th Regiment. The Smoothbore Battery is obviously 'a funny', if I may draw on a Normandy metaphor, to the extent that it would be difficult to be certain whether or not one was 'onto' the right mark of 6-pdr or 12-pdr, but E/B battery would be typical of its type and equipped with a well-known gun of the period.

I have little doubt that other members here, who do not find themselves in quite the same cleft stick, with a client base to consider, will provide much of the rest of the data you seek.

Best Wishes

Mike
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Re: Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby Atheling » 31 Jul 2014 15:42

mike snook wrote:Hi Darrell

ooo...that's a significant research project, when both sets of antagonists are considered, (and I'm not going to write a lengthy essay here on spec). I'm going to have to pretend that I haven't seen this!


:)

mike snook wrote:Your approach is admirably honest and puts an onus on me to respond in similar vein. I recognise also that your query is thoroughly well-intentioned, but it nonetheless inadvertently seeks to draw me over the line I am obliged to draw between, on the one hand, being as helpful as I can, (time, competing priorities and goodwill permitting), to the private VMH enthusiasts who make up the membership of VWF, and on the other falling into the trap of providing gratis consultancy to commercial concerns or to individuals proceeding (sometimes covertly) from a commercial point of view. I do several strands of what I now fill my day with on a professional basis and have other fee-paying clients to consider, to whom I must of course be fair. Naturally I don't want to be in the business of pulling the rug from under my own feet either. Forgive me.


Ah, I didn't think of it that way. My apologies. The topic started with me thinking that I would have to convert many figures artillery and limbers and it was not an intentional that I would be acting as an agent for another company.

mike snook wrote:I will gladly reflect on the Maiwand chapter of Into the Jaws of Death: British Military Blunders 1879-1900 , a book for which I have already been (pitifully) remunerated! The 6 guns of Major George Blackwood's E Battery, B Brigade, RHA, were the standard 9-pdr RML of the period, with the horse artillery limber. The 'Smoothbore Battery' commanded by Captain John Slade RHA, consisted of four older, (smoothbore obviously!), 6-pounders and 2 x 12-pdr howitzers. These were guns which the British had recovered from the Wali of Kandahar's mutinous and recently routed wing of the Afghan regular army. Slade, ordinarily a staff officer, but originally Blackwood's battery captain, was given 17 NCOs and gunners from E/B Battery, (4 & 158 to begin with), plus Lt Faunce and 42 hastily drilled NCOs and men of the 66th Regiment. The Smoothbore Battery is obviously 'a funny', if I may draw on a Normandy metaphor, to the extent that it would be difficult to be certain whether or not one was 'onto' the right mark of 6-pdr or 12-pdr, but E/B battery would be typical of its type and equipped with a well-known gun of the period.


Actually I've just bought the book so I'll be able to investigate further when it slides through the letterbox.

mike snook wrote:I have little doubt that other members here, who do not find themselves in quite the same cleft stick, with a client base to consider, will provide much of the rest of the data you seek.


Thanks Mike, all the info is very much appreciated and I'll be rooting it out from your book when it arrives.

Thanks,
Darrell.
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Re: Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby mike snook » 31 Jul 2014 16:58

Cheers Darrell and thanks for understanding. Absolutely nothing to apologise for. I 'totally get' (as they say) where you are coming from. If it's specifically Maiwand you're after, ITJOD is the place to go! And like I say, others here will doubtless not be constrained in quite the same way and will fire in some stuff which will be of interest to you.

As ever

Mike
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Re: Could the Following Be Used As 2nd Afghan War Artillery?

Postby Atheling » 31 Jul 2014 17:19

mike snook wrote:Cheers Darrell and thanks for understanding. Absolutely nothing to apologise for. I 'totally get' (as they say) where you are coming from. If it's specifically Maiwand you're after, ITJOD is the place to go! And like I say, others here will doubtless not be constrained in quite the same way and will fire in some stuff which will be of interest to you.

As ever

Mike


Thanks again Mike, I'll take a good look at ITJOD, when it arrives :) .

Darrell.
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