1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

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1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby dianejar » 20 Jan 2014 06:54

A significant number of soldiers are recorded on the 1841 Census of England & Wales at Heavitree (near Exeter), Devon Artillery Barracks. The Census does not spell out which regiment it is. I have reason to believe this may have been the 2nd Battalion of the Royal Scots. Can anyone confirm the battalion's whereabouts in 1841. I can only discover that it was in Canada in 1838-39 and then in the Crimea in 1855.

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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby jf42 » 20 Jan 2014 11:29

Diane- greetings.

This is an outline of the 2nd Bn 1st Royal regiment's postings between 1836 and 1855. The battalion left Ireland in 1836 and did not return to the British Isles until 1846. As you can see there was only a brief sojourn in England 1846-47.

1836.07.05 at sea
1836 Canada
1838 Canada
1839 Canada
1843 West Indies: Barbados (Right Wing wrecked at sea, returned to Quebec, rejoined Left Wing at Barbados 1844)
1846 Scotland
1846 England
1847 Ireland
1853 Ionian Islands: Cephalonia
1855 Crimea

if you want to investigate the 1st Royals, or any other regiments, further, this website will prove a useful guide:
http://web.archive.org/web/200712240550 ... 1RScot.htm
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby crimea1854 » 20 Jan 2014 20:51

Diane

I had a look at the 1841 census and selected two men with unusual names and ranks that were likely to have resulted in them receiving a pension, and thus their service records could survive. The two I chose were Moses Lewis, QM Sgt, and Thomas Fransham, Sgt. I'm please to say that this approach paid off, since I found both serving in the 65th. On this, admittedly, rather small sample I would suggest that the regt. in barracks at Heavitree at the time of the census was therefore the 65th Foot.

There is also a Lieut. William Pym Young on the census, and since the 65th went on to serve in New Zealand there is a good deal of information available on the Regt. and the men who both served and settled in NZ. At the time the Regt. was in NZ W.P.Young was a Major, having been promoted to Captain in 1843.

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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby dianejar » 25 Jan 2014 08:21

Thanks jf42 and Martin. A bit of knowledge by jf42 and some lateral thinking by Martin has eliminated my William Balmer and his brother John as prospects for the 1841 Census. The brothers were both in 2nd Battalion Royal Scots but there seem to be no WO97 for either ... William's missing discharge to pension documents unsurprising as he was court martialled and sentenced to penal servitude in Western Australia. Both brothers are in the Crimean Medal rolls but I am stuck on birth places.
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby Frogsmile » 28 Jan 2014 14:19

dianejar wrote:A significant number of soldiers are recorded on the 1841 Census of England & Wales at Heavitree (near Exeter), Devon Artillery Barracks. The Census does not spell out which regiment it is. I have reason to believe this may have been the 2nd Battalion of the Royal Scots. Can anyone confirm the battalion's whereabouts in 1841. I can only discover that it was in Canada in 1838-39 and then in the Crimea in 1855.

Diane


Diane, although the 2nd Battalion of the 1st Foot were indeed in Canada in 1841, it is worth bearing in mind that the battalion's depot company remained at Buttevant, in Ireland, just in case that is relevant.
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby katrinajoy » 07 Mar 2016 06:49

Hi,
I am also interested in the Heavitree Artillery Barracks in 1841, as my great great grandmother appears to be there in the census however I cannot understand her role there. Her name was Ann Simmons and as far as I can make out of the occupation it says Mejs woman.... her future husband Daniel Tansley (Hitchin) was listed as being in Devonport in 1841 he had been in the 11th Foot Regiment. Can't figure out how they met except that it had to have been in 1841 as their first born arrived at the beginning of 1842. I think Ann's father may have been in the military as well, but because I have so few details in the census in 1841 he is in Tavistock (where he and Ann were both born) but listed as a Chelsea pensioner, his name was William Simmons wife was Jane and Ann was born 1818...
If anyone can shed some light on the situation or what Ann was doing at the barracks, or what regiment was at the barracks it would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Katrina
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby jf42 » 07 Mar 2016 09:36

katrinajoy wrote:Hi,
I am also interested in the Heavitree Artillery Barracks in 1841, as my great great grandmother appears to be there in the census however I cannot understand her role there. Her name was Ann Simmons and as far as I can make out of the occupation it says Mejs woman.... her future husband Daniel Tansley (Hitchin) was listed as being in Devonport in 1841 he had been in the 11th Foot Regiment. Can't figure out how they met except that it had to have been in 1841 as their first born arrived at the beginning of 1842. I think Ann's father may have been in the military as well, but because I have so few details in the census in 1841 he is in Tavistock (where he and Ann were both born) but listed as a Chelsea pensioner, his name was William Simmons wife was Jane and Ann was born 1818...
If anyone can shed some light on the situation or what Ann was doing at the barracks, or what regiment was at the barracks it would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Katrina


Katrina- hello.

It is possible that the occupation of your great-great grandmother at Heavitree Barracks was entered as 'mess woman' but written in the old style with the intial 's' of the 'ss' written as 'f' (to modern eyes).

'Mess' or 'messing' refers to preparation of food for soldiers. Usually such functions were carried out by wives of soldiers, a number of whom were authorised to reside in barracks with their husbands, although the relationships between couples were not always formalised. I am not sure but I think it would have been less likely for a single woman to be employed in barracks. Other members on the forum may have more to say on this subject.

The Nafziger resource for the British army doesn't list any regiment at Heavitree for either February or October 1841.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 4245,d.d24

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 4245,d.d24

Other members on the forum may also have more to say about Heavitree Barracks. Although a fair assumption might be that the army presence at Heavitree were from the Royal Artillery, I gather there was also a cavalry barracks.
http://www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/_bui ... rracks.php

The Exeter Memories website may turn up other useful information for you. I see it has a forum, which coincidentally looks rather like VWF.

I imagine you have looked into this but Exeter and Devonport (Plymouth) are only fifty miles apart (although the railway had yet to be built at that date) and Tavistock is only 15 miles north of Devonport, so it is not out of the question that Anne and Daniel could have become aquainted- particularly with the military connection. If Anne's Chelsea Pensioner father had served in the 11th the connection would become stronger.

The situation for your great-great-grandparents 'getting to know each other' is complicated somewhat by the fact that on 21st of August 1841 the 11th were moved from Devonport to Newport in Monmouthshire but judging by the birth of their first child in early 1842 they must have become acquainted by then.
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby katrinajoy » 11 Mar 2016 01:31

Thank you so much for your reply, it makes so much more sense now... As for Ann Simmons father William from Tavistock, I am having a terrible time trying distinguish his military records from others of the same name... I think maybe he was in the 64th Foot regiment... but the dates don't add up as he was in Tavistock when his kids were born and in the 1841 and 1851 census and obviously out of the service before the kids were born.... but getting there slowly. thanks again Katrina
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby jf42 » 11 Mar 2016 12:04

We love a puzzle on VWF. Good luck.
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby katrinajoy » 14 Mar 2016 05:38

Can you please tell me how common it would have been for the army records to be incorrect? I have found a William Simmons that matches the dates that make sense to me i.e. born around 1781- 1783 and leaving the service in august 1817, which gives him plenty of time to get married etc. however the army record says born in Rivelstock, (looks like a combination of Rivelstoke and tavistock) I cannot find a William simmons born in rivelstoke .... but it says in the 28th and waterloo.... is this possible?
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Re: 1st Regiment (Royal Scots) 2nd Battalion

Postby Frogsmile » 02 Sep 2017 11:21

katrinajoy wrote:Can you please tell me how common it would have been for the army records to be incorrect? I have found a William Simmons that matches the dates that make sense to me i.e. born around 1781- 1783 and leaving the service in august 1817, which gives him plenty of time to get married etc. however the army record says born in Rivelstock, (looks like a combination of Rivelstoke and tavistock) I cannot find a William simmons born in rivelstoke .... but it says in the 28th and waterloo.... is this possible?


Rivelstock was the old spelling for 'Revelstoke', in the parish of Plympton, Devon. There is no reason why a man from there should not have been in the 28th Regiment and with service at Waterloo. He likely joined them either as a volunteer from the County Militia (each parish at that time was obligated by law to provide an allocation of men to its local militia, selected by ballot, or purchased in as a proxy), or by enlisting with the reserve/depot Company of the 28th wherever the company was at the time (they moved frequently). There was a huge national military effort at that time with few villages/towns, etc. not affected.
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