Uniform identity

For all discussions relating to military uniforms, insignia, equipment and medals of the Victorian period.

Re: Uniform identity

Postby Gilhooley1939 » 16 Jul 2012 23:31

grumpy wrote:Herewith my notes on Terms of Engagement: I think Frogsmile meant to say 7 with colours, 5 on reserve?

As usual, my careful tabulation is b*ggered!

Year Terms Source

1806 until 1829 Life, or ‘limited service’, of seven years with up to two of seven year extensions up to 21 years Bulletin MHS No.237, Philip Haythornthwaite
1837 at least By purchase up to 7 years £20, thereafter sliding scale to 14 years £5, thereafter free, with enhancements up to 21 years, and enhancements for “distinguishing marks” ie. Good Conduct badges. KR 1837
Until 1847 For life or until medical discharge The Victorian Army at Home (VAH)
1847 10 years, re-engage to 21 years for pension VAH
1870 12 years, but normally split 6 years colours and 6 years reserve VAH
1870 6 years colours and 6 years reserve The Late Victorian Army
1873 6 years colours and 6 years on reserve or 12 years and no reserve … one or the other Through the Ranks to a Commission
1881 7 years colours and 5 years on reserve VAH
1902 May 3 years colours and 9 on reserve. Army Orders (AO) 117/02
1902 Jul Extensions for those on 3 years or 7 years initial engagement, can extend to 8 years or 12 years AO 159/02
1904 Proposed, not implemented: a ‘2 years with colours plus 6 years reserve’ engagement for Home, or ‘ 9 years with colours plus 3 year reserve’ for general service The Development of the British Army
1904 Nov Terms of service 9 years with colours and 3 years reserve AO 189/04
1905 2 years with colours and 10 years reserve for certain large regiments tentatively examined AO/204/05
1906 Sep to 1914 7 years with colours and 5 years reserve for all. Extensions to 7 years allowed AO 209/06
War 3 years or the duration, and also as above
1918/19 Various expedients to keep Army of Rhine up to strength
1922 Long service = 12 years
1924 7 and 5, or 3 and 9 Guards AO 446 Dec Aled Jones
1932 Guards 7 and 5 or 4 and 8 AO 142 August Aled Jones
1938 Long Service 12 years option 9 more for pension
1947 May Aled Jones
1947 “normal” is 12 years, or 5 and 7 [sic] Army estimates Aled Jones

Interesting...So could a soldier,Sign up,go on the reserve,then re sign up and then reserve again?
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Re: Uniform identity

Postby Frogsmile » 17 Jul 2012 00:12

Gilhooley1939 wrote:
FROGSMILE wrote:
Gilhooley1939 wrote:Thanks again,Frog and Meireg.I have checked out FMP and there is no sign of my William or his regiment. William phillips born 1855
Highgate Middlesex.


Are you 100%, without a doubt positive that the photo is of William Phillips?

There are other sources than FMP so I am sure that someone will be able to help.


The Photo is definately a Phillips.I queried this with the owner of the photo,and he assures me that the photo is of this person.The person that owns the photo is a living Grandson!!!.Pretty amazing for somebody born in 1855.My father is his Greatgrandson x2 and is the spitting image.

I thought it could be another family member myself,but have been assured otherwise.

National archives have the muster records for the Bengal Fusiliers,and as a reader there,I shall be going through them next week.

If theres anything you need looking up there Frog,Let me know and I shall search for you.

Lawrence.


Good luck Lawrence, I am 100% confident that he was a fusilier and, examining our time frame, I have not been able to find any other fusilier regiment in Dublin over the period in question.

Don't forget that there was also a Royal Bengal Fusiliers (101st), but it is the plain 'Bengal Fusiliers' (104th) that you are looking for.

The 104th had their depot at Tralee for a 5-year period leading up to 1881 and the battalion itself moved between Belfast, Dublin and the Curragh during that time. It looks very much as if your ggf spent almost all of his time in the Army, in Ireland and he probably left when the battalion moved to Malta.

Also do not lose sight of that fact that it was common for some men to enlist under an assumed name, either to escape an unpalatable past, or to become 'bounty jumpers' (men who repeatedly took the recruitment bounty under an assumed name and then absconded). I am not of course saying that your ggf did that, but it is worth keeping that possibility at the back of your mind.
Last edited by Frogsmile on 17 Jul 2012 21:37, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Uniform identity

Postby Peter » 17 Jul 2012 02:44

Grumpy,

Concerning

1870 6 years colours and 6 years reserve The Late Victorian Army

Bond cites as his authority: Army Enlistment Act, 1870 [p 333, fn 7]

…… and for the benefit of those with an interest in other than the Infantry:

“Initially these terms applied only to the infantry”.

(Bond, B, Recruiting the Victorian Army 1870 –92, Victorian Studies, Vol V, June 1962, No 4, pp 331 – 338).

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Re: Uniform identity

Postby SWB » 17 Jul 2012 06:23

After FMP try Ancestry.co.uk and look at the "WW1" pension and service papers. They do contain papers for men who did not serve in WW1.

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Re: Uniform identity

Postby grumpy » 20 Jul 2012 21:58

Peter wrote:Grumpy,

Concerning

1870 6 years colours and 6 years reserve The Late Victorian Army

Bond cites as his authority: Army Enlistment Act, 1870 [p 333, fn 7]

…… and for the benefit of those with an interest in other than the Infantry:

“Initially these terms applied only to the infantry”.

(Bond, B, Recruiting the Victorian Army 1870 –92, Victorian Studies, Vol V, June 1962, No 4, pp 331 – 338).

Regards,


Yes, thank you for the clarification: my tabulation is "Infantry Only", as life is too short to be a total generalist. I have never seen a full analysis across the total time scale: it is do-able, but not by me!
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