Help on uniforms

[sbintayab]

Hello,
I have downloaded some images on Uniforms of British army 1855. I have some doubts on following image-

My doubts are-
1. Was it field officer or company grade officer?
2. How field officer and company officer were distinguished from each other by rank (specially cuff and collar)?
Can anyone help me about my doubts?
Regards
Shams

[tabony]

That's not an officer, that is a Trooper of The Life Guards without belts! If he was wearing waist belt with sword, cross belt and gauntlets he would be in dismounted review order. Just search The Life Guards and you'll see we still wear this order of dress. Although the helmet is now the 1871 pattern and the collar was hightened in 1902

Martin

[FROGSMILE]

Martin is an expert in this area Shams, with a deep understanding, especially, of the Household Cavalry regiments.

You must remember that as Household Troops there was (and still is), a degree of superior lacing on other ranks uniform that would only be found on officers uniforms in Line regiments.

[sbintayab]

Thanks FROGSMILE and Martin. One thing I am asking to Martin and FROGSMILE about the dress designed in 1855 for Horse Guards which was changed in 1857. Can you help me about this?
I have a clue on this- later Royal Glasgow Yeomanry adopted the uniforms of Royal Horse Guards of 1855. Just I am wanted to know about the cuff and collar design of uniforms of Royal Horse Guards in 1855.
Regards
Shams

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks FROGSMILE and Martin. One thing I am asking to Martin and FROGSMILE about the dress designed in 1855 for Horse Guards which was changed in 1857. Can you help me about this?
I have a clue on this- later Royal Glasgow Yeomanry adopted the uniforms of Royal Horse Guards of 1855. Just I am wanted to know about the cuff and collar design of uniforms of Royal Horse Guards in 1855.
Regards
Shams

Although the majority of Army uniforms changed in 1855 the Household Cavalry did not change their upper garment until 1857, when they changed to the single breasted tunic shown in the image that you posted above.

Before 1857 they continued to wear the single breasted 'coatee' (a waist length jacket with tails at the back) that they had adopted around the time of Queen Victoria's accession (before that the coatee had been double breasted). The cuffs were still of the gauntlet pattern with embroidered loops, two on each cuff, the officers being floriated and the men's more plain. The collar was high, of the Prussian type.

Unfortunately the cuffs are rarely seen because of the wearing of heavy gauntlets, but they can be seen in the enclosed images. They remained practically unchanged from 1817 until they were replaced in 1857.

The officers coatee was worn with fringed, heavy gold epaulettes, with and without the cuirass, the men's epaulettes took the form of brass scales and crescent. The coatee was very tight fitting and impractical for battle, but never had to be used in action as the Household Cavalry remained on home service for nearly 70 years after Waterloo. The collar, cuffs and turnbacks on the tails are blue velvet and embroidered as shown.

The Royal Horse Guards wore the same type of coatee except that the colours were reversed with the body colour blue and the facings and turnbacks scarlet. Unlike the Life Guards, however, they had edging, in scarlet, down the front and around the waist.

[tabony]

I've been trying (and still am) to find a picture of a cuff that matches Shams illustration. It was my understanding that cuff decoration on the 1857 tunic was the same as is now used. Officer = laurel and oak leaves (field officers have leaves around cuff), trooper = lace "chevron" and button, musician (and trumpeter) = "bullet hole" lace around cuff, see pictures. I've also posted a picture of Band master James Waterson 1863 and one of a series of "daily life" pictures dated 1857, both showing the chevron. The closest I can find is the other ranks mess dress. I wonder if this is an interim which was carried on to the mess dress or did the artist just make a mistake?

[tabony]

Here's the band 1860s and the modern mess dress.

[tabony]

Thanks FROGSMILE and Martin. One thing I am asking to Martin and FROGSMILE about the dress designed in 1855 for Horse Guards which was changed in 1857. Can you help me about this?
I have a clue on this- later Royal Glasgow Yeomanry adopted the uniforms of Royal Horse Guards of 1855. Just I am wanted to know about the cuff and collar design of uniforms of Royal Horse Guards in 1855.
Regards
Shams

I believe the Berwickshire Yeomanry's uniform was based on The Life Guards I believe their first unifom had a jacket based on The Life Guards shell jacket. Their latter uniform was a dragoon uniform with white metal helmet and white plume, the tunic was red with similar cuffs to The Life Guards, they also wore The Life Guards double stripe with piping (serve the king, cross the sea, serve the king, cross back, serve the king.) on their blue breaches, standard butcher boots not jackboots .
Any way here's Glasgow Yeomanry officer and trooper
Martin

[17thLancer]

The Berwicks jacket was a short style, not the longer type. They only had the short jacket never the regular Dragoon tunic. Mine is Victorian but there wernt many differences to the Edwardian.

[sbintayab]

Dear Martin, FROGSMILE and 17th Lancer,
Thanks a lot. One of my friend- Mr Mike Trevor has gifted me a book- "Uniforms of Late Victorian Yeomanry uniforms 1880-1899", published by DP&G publications. In this book it is mentioned that, the uniforms of Royal Glasgow Yeomanry was the same uniforms of Royal Horse Guards which was adopted in 1855. Later the tunic image of Glasgow Yeomanry is shown in the book. This book is in my lab. Later I will add this image to the forum.
This information created a quest to find the officer rank badges of Royal Horse Guards in 1855. I have few knowledge on the rank badges of British army from 1791 to March 1855 and from 1857 to current. Absent is from April 1855 to 1857.
Regards
Shams

[FROGSMILE]

Dear Martin, FROGSMILE and 17th Lancer,
Thanks a lot. One of my friend- Mr Mike Trevor has gifted me a book- "Uniforms of Late Victorian Yeomanry uniforms 1880-1899", published by DP&G publications. In this book it is mentioned that, the uniforms of Royal Glasgow Yeomanry was the same uniforms of Royal Horse Guards which was adopted in 1855. Later the tunic image of Glasgow Yeomanry is shown in the book. This book is in my lab. Later I will add this image to the forum.
This information created a quest to find the officer rank badges of Royal Horse Guards in 1855. I have few knowledge on the rank badges of British army from 1791 to March 1855 and from 1857 to current. Absent is from April 1855 to 1857.
Regards
Shams

Shams - I am not clear whether we have provided you with what you requested in your initial post on this thread, or not?

[sbintayab]

Dear FROGSMILE,
In the book-"Uniforms of Late Victorian Yeomanry 1880-1899", it is mentioned me, in 1855 the uniforms of Royal Horse Guards was tunic later adopted by Royal Glasgow Yeomanry.
In the thread I've got the information that- in 1855, Royal Horse Guards retained their coatee uniforms.
These two information have made me confused.
On the other hand, I have collected the Dress regulations of 1855. In this dress regulations, in the page 61, it was mentioned that, "later an appendix will be issued about the dress of Life Guards and Royal Horse Guards".

Besides, can you provide me the cuff and collar details of Royal Glasgow Yeomanry in 1899? If so, it will help me a lot.
Regards
Shams

[tabony]

Judging by the two Glasgow Yeomanry pictures I posted above the collar an cuffs do seem to follow that of the Royal Horse Guards (although with a black plume and whatapears to be the original "Albert" helmet).

Martin

[sbintayab]

Thanks Martin.....

[FROGSMILE]

Dear FROGSMILE,
In the book-"Uniforms of Late Victorian Yeomanry 1880-1899", it is mentioned me, in 1855 the uniforms of Royal Horse Guards was tunic later adopted by Royal Glasgow Yeomanry.
In the thread I've got the information that- in 1855, Royal Horse Guards retained their coatee uniforms.
These two information have made me confused.
On the other hand, I have collected the Dress regulations of 1855. In this dress regulations, in the page 61, it was mentioned that, "later an appendix will be issued about the dress of Life Guards and Royal Horse Guards".

Besides, can you provide me the cuff and collar details of Royal Glasgow Yeomanry in 1899? If so, it will help me a lot.
Regards
Shams

Shams, hopefully Martins pictures have clarified the matter for you now.

I think that the 'confusion' you mention was caused because although the majority of Army uniforms did indeed change in 1855, those for the Life Guards (LG) and Royal Horse Guards (RHG) did not change until 1857. It might be that the new design had been agreed in 1855, but it was not actually adopted until 1857.

As a result of this I was unsure if you were referring to the 'coatee' that was still in use with the LG and RHG in 1855, or the 'new tunic' that they adopted in 1857. The cuff and skirt adornments were different as you will have seen above.