Old Welsh uniform

[davesmedals]

Can anyone tell me if this uniform is common or rare?

[FROGSMILE]

Can anyone tell me if this uniform is common or rare?

It is extremely rare and is a 7-button Full Dress tunic for a Colour Sergeant of the 1st Volunteer Battalion of the RWF between 1881 and 1902. Before 1881 it was the Denbighshire Volunteer Rifle Corps and after 1908 it became the 4th (Denbighshire) Battalion the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. The Volunteer Battalions tunics were distinct from other battalions of a regiment in that they had Austrian knots on the cuffs. Badges (stripes and crossed flags etc) were in silver wire as opposed to the gilt wire of the Regular and Militia battalions. The battalions designation was also emboidered in white worsted on the shoulder straps. At that time other ranks did not wear the parent regiment's famous Flash of ribbons worn by officers on the back of the collar, although this was adopted by the soldiery after the Great War (see illustration).

Each year a return of efficiency was made to higher authority showing the number of 'drills' (as training sessions were called) a man had attended. For each 5 years (later 4) that a man was shown on the list as "efficient" he was awarded a star to place above the Austrian knot on his sleeve. Five or six stars is unusual, but seven is absolutely extraordinary!

Colour Sergeant was the highest rank that a Volunteer could achieve having joined as a Private, as the positions of Quartermaster Sergeant and Sergeant Major were, together with the permanent staff instructors, reserved for Regular soldiers. There was one Colour Sergeant per company of a Volunteer Battalion and usually 8 companies (A to H). He was responsible for the discipline, stores and pay of each company and the company commander's right hand man.

The sash is of the Serjeants pattern and made of worsted wool and is unusual in that it is fitted with a brass ring, which is non-standard and something that I have never seen. There was also a Staff Serjeant's (later Warrant Officers) pattern made of herringbone silk. The tunic has Victorian General Service buttons rather than the regimental pattern that was adopted later.

I enclose a similar tunic for a Corporal of Volunteers in the Durham Light Infantry by way of comparison. As a non-Royal English regiment the collar and cuffs are white, as per regulation, and you can see the Austrian knots and positioning of efficiency stars are slightly different. I also enclose 2 contemporary photographs, one of a RWF Volunteer Colour Sergeant (of the same Battalion - note the 4-point star for a volunteer sergeant's 'proficiency certificate') around 1905-06, and one of Royal Sussex Regt Volunteers at annual camp, probably before 1902.

[davesmedals]

Thanks FrogSmile, Thats Fantastic News

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks FrogSmile, Thats Fantastic News

It would have been worn with Oxford mixture trousers (blue-black in colour) with a quarter inch red stripe down the outer seam. Undress caps were the Glengarry until replaced by Field Service Caps (as worn by the Sussex lads) around 1897 and in Full Dress a Racoon Skin cap.

[grumpy]

All I would add is the absence of the 4 pointed Proficiency star above crown of rank badge ...... almost unthinkable for a SNCO of that length service. See the b&w photo later, for example.

[FROGSMILE]

All I would add is the absence of the 4 pointed Proficiency star above crown of rank badge ...... almost unthinkable for a SNCO of that length service. See the b&w photo later, for example.

Yes it does seem odd, although he is not by any means the first CSgt that I have seen without the proficiency star, despite the length of service. I suspect there were some who did not feel confident enough to put themselves under test, or who did not want to run the risk of failure. From my own experience that is more common than might be imagined, especially if the testing and certifying is being carried out externally from the unit.

[Mark]

Outstanding replies, FROGSMILE! Thanks for the info!

Mark

[grumpy]

another wrinkle: contrast the collar braid position on the example tunic with that on the b&w photo: this was not by chance, but as a result of RACD edicts, driven from on high. I am away from my notes at the moment so cannot elaborate for a few days, but the change affected all "Royal" regiments.

[davesmedals]

Thanks for all your help

[FROGSMILE]

another wrinkle: contrast the collar braid position on the example tunic with that on the b&w photo: this was not by chance, but as a result of RACD edicts, driven from on high. I am away from my notes at the moment so cannot elaborate for a few days, but the change affected all "Royal" regiments.

I don't think it is a 'wrinkle', the white piping is in the correct place for the 1881 to 1902 tunic (as seen also in the colour print of regular pioneer and goat major with jam pot cuffs, as well as the Royal Sussex lads). When the replacement tunic came into use after that latter year it initially had the lacing in the wrong place along the top of the collar, as seen in the B&W photo of the RWF Colour Sergeant in forage cap circa 1905/06. This was pointed out as being a heraldic error (white piping should bisect/separate the scarlet from the Royal blue facings) and it was corrected back to the correct place along the base of the collar in 1912/13, at the same time as the old cap/ticket pocket was removed from the waist seam.

[grumpy]

now see contemporary Foot Guards Home Service collar detail!

[FROGSMILE]

now see contemporary Foot Guards Home Service collar detail!

Since when do the Guards follow the rules of anyone else? Perhaps the real reason that the other regiments were made to switch back was not heraldic but to make them unlike the Guards again!

[tabony]

now see contemporary Foot Guards Home Service collar detail!

Since when do the Guards follow the rules of anyone else? Perhaps the real reason that the other regiments were made to switch back was not heraldic but to make them unlike the Guards again!

As it should be!

Martin

[davesmedals]

Thanks for all the posts and help.

Is it possible to find out the chaps name or not? or would there be a list of all the C.SGT's from this period?


all the best dave

[Atlantia]

What fantastic tunics!
Congrats Dave on your beautiful example.

Edit:
Can't let this chaps moustache pass without comment.

Definately soup-strainer of the week for me!