Battle of Maiwand

[peterb632]

For my birthday a few weeks ago I received a belated copy of, "Maiwand -The Last Stand of the 66th..." by R.J. Stacpoole-Ryding.

While I have not had time to read through it yet, I noticed in the last few pages a few paragraphs & pictures of an 1874 LSA Martini Henry Mk.II, which if I understood correctly may be an example of one of the weopons lost at Maiwand.
The reason I am writing this is that I have an identical 1874 LSA Martini Henry Mk.II (converted from a Mk.I shows the offset "II"), which also came back from an Afghanistan bazaar 18 months ago courtesy of an acquaintance of mine in the NY National Guard who was out there.

Now obviously while I don't know the history of my rifle, during the taking apart & rebuild I found it had been out there long enough to have several of it's internal parts replaced, i.e. the firing pin, spring & trigger spring had all been replaced with local hand made replacements. My MH also has the early Mk.I back sight, & a strange almost horse shaped "U" stamped on the metal in a couple of places.

My question is, is it known that the 66th were issued with 1874 LSA Mk.II's, or is all this just a co-incidence. Or any other comments.

Peter (in Burlington, Ontario)

[maiwander]

For my birthday a few weeks ago I received a belated copy of, "Maiwand -The Last Stand of the 66th..." by R.J. Stacpoole-Ryding.

While I have not had time to read through it yet, I noticed in the last few pages a few paragraphs & pictures of an 1874 LSA Martini Henry Mk.II, which if I understood correctly may be an example of one of the weopons lost at Maiwand.
The reason I am writing this is that I have an identical 1874 LSA Martini Henry Mk.II (converted from a Mk.I shows the offset "II"), which also came back from an Afghanistan bazaar 18 months ago courtesy of an acquaintance of mine in the NY National Guard who was out there.

Now obviously while I don't know the history of my rifle, during the taking apart & rebuild I found it had been out there long enough to have several of it's internal parts replaced, i.e. the firing pin, spring & trigger spring had all been replaced with local hand made replacements. My MH also has the early Mk.I back sight, & a strange almost horse shaped "U" stamped on the metal in a couple of places.

My question is, is it known that the 66th were issued with 1874 LSA Mk.II's, or is all this just a co-incidence. Or any other comments.

Hello Peter,
Firstly I am delighted to read that you have been given a copy of my book...I hope that you will enjoy reading it.

I am unable to really comment on your question regarding the Martini Henry rifle that you have as I am not really an arms expert. The section in the book was written on the advice from another person, who owns the rifle in question, and was on the team behind me writing the book. I will send your query to him and ask his opinion and post his reply in this section.

Richard

[John]

Dear Maiwander

I am interested in the state of communications between Afghanistan and England at the time of the Battle of Maiwand. Do you have any information on how news of battle would have reached England and how long it would have taken?

I've tried a wide range of internet searches for newspaper reports but without success.

Grateful if you, or any other member, could comment.

John

[heliwest]

The electric telegraph between UK and India was operational from about 1870 so information would depend on the time from the battle scene to the nearest telegraph station. Peshewar was conected to Calcutta in the late 1850s so information transfer would have been relatively swift.

[John]

Many thanks Heliwest - your reply gave me the inspiration for a new search. I found something here:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28438207/IN ... OM-HISTORY

which puts the first Indo-European telegraph at 1865.

Apologies to Peter for hijacking his thread. I'll butt out now.

John

[maiwander]

Dear Maiwander

I am interested in the state of communications between Afghanistan and England at the time of the Battle of Maiwand. Do you have any information on how news of battle would have reached England and how long it would have taken?

Hello John
I am afraid I can not be of much help on this one. From the information I have gleaned during my research on Burrows march to the Helmand and the subsequent battle of Maiwand I can confirm that Burrows had heliograph equipment available to him, however due to the terrain it was not of much use. Certainly he did not have any telegraphic cable with him due to the distance involved and of course any cables would have been destroyed by the Afghans. Reports, orders and so forth were taken by despatch riders on horseback to and from Burrows and Kandahar. Of interest General Primrose at Kandahar received his orders by telegram from Simla.

News of the defeat at Maiwand reached Kandahar by the arrival of a native soldier (cavalry I think) and the report given by Veterinary Surgeon Oliver attached to E Battery, B Brigade Royal Horse Artillery. I suspect the following reports of the defeat and retreat from Maiwand were then sent by telegraph to Simla and hence picked up by the press and forwarded onto London.

I have a file of newspaper reports from various newspapers which range from fairly accurate reports to the extreme. Many are critical of Burrows handling of the battle, but that is another story to be examined and written up - needless to say I have already started looking at this matter.

Hope the above has been some help and of interest.

[Garen]

Continuing the diversion... I was once sent an article that included the fact that the Times war correspondent telephoned back a report of the battle of Ahmed Khel, the first time news was sent from the field of battle in this way.

I thought this sounded doubtful and traced the source as far as one of those 'on this day' websites (April 19th 1880), but don't know where it came from before that.

A bit of research showed that actually the first news of the battle of Ahmed Khel was sent the following day, once the column reached Ghazni, by heliograph to General Ross 50 miles away. The news was then sent to India and then the Indo-European Telegraph via Teheran to be reported in the late edition of The Times on April 23rd, and more fully on the 24th. General Stewart laid no wires on his march from Kandahar to Ghazni, so direct telegraphic communication from the field of battle was not possible.

During the siege of Kandahar, following Maiwand, the telegraph line from that city was cut, so there was no telegraphic communication until Roberts' relief arrived and after the battle on 1 Sep (article here might be of interest).

- G

[lijssenthoek1915]

I see the author Richard J Stacpoole-Ryding of "Maiwand: The Last Stand of the 66th (Berkshire) Regiment in Afghanistan, 1880" has posted here.
I was going to purchase your book published in 08 for my son as a Christmas present but see that it is selling on Amazon for the ridiculous price of £223 somewhat above the cover price of of £19.99. I see Richard that you live in Sittingbourne.
I live nearby Newington. If you have a copy of your book for the cover price I am quite willing to collect at a time of mutual convenience.

I went to Reading University 72-26 and then to Bulmershe College (now part of Reading Uni) between 80-82.
One of my first experiences of Reading was walking into the Forbury Gardens where the Maiwand Lion stands but sad to relate I was at a stage in my life when war memorials didn't mean very much though I hope, subsequently I have made up for this. (I have posted under the name of bentinckboy (my old school) my thoughts on Pink Floyd's David Gilmour's adopted son Charlie swinging from the flags of the Cenotaph on Damian Thompson's Telegraph blog.)

Whilst at Reading I didn't hear the Maiwand Lion referred to by the local press/radio as anything else but the Forbury Lion and I spent the whole of my time there totally ignorant of the fact that it was a fine war memorial. I am sad to say I visited Forbury Gardens only a couple of more times during my stay in Reading. It gained a sadly well-deserved reputation as a Winos(tho actually more accurately described as Cidos) meeting place so it was not a place you wanted to show visitors to Reading.
My last visit making me feel very uncomfortable with loud goings on amongst its nether region denizens.

I don't think my experience was any different than most young people who go to Reading as students. They are no more aware when they leave as when they arrived and it was not until I was looking through the Francis Frith photographic collection that I saw the postcard of the Maiwand Lion, knew this was the Forbury Lion and then reference Maiwand and found it commemorated a battle in Afghanistan.

I have never in media reports of our troops in Helmund ever heard the invocation of the name Maiwand as I rather suspect that the reporters they send out there are ignorant of past sacrifice and considering the BBC's normal interest in troop welfare have not the slightest interest in the suffering British troops historically.

Personally I cannot think of a more useless place to lay down your life than Afghanistan, a corrupt, warring tribal society of warring Kin-related factions with a "government" in the sense we know it being but a figment of ambitious politicians in the West, though as ever what British troops are faced with is not their choice but that of politicians playing with a very different agenda but the troops will, again as ever, do an amazing job against the odds and not forever blowing civilians away from aerial attacks like an "ally" I could mention.

[maiwander]

I see the author Richard J Stacpoole-Ryding of "Maiwand: The Last Stand of the 66th (Berkshire) Regiment in Afghanistan, 1880" has posted here.
I was going to purchase your book published in 08 for my son as a Christmas present but see that it is selling on Amazon for the ridiculous price of £223 somewhat above the cover price of of £19.99. I see Richard that you live in Sittingbourne.
I live nearby Newington. If you have a copy of your book for the cover price I am quite willing to collect at a time of mutual convenience.

Firstly, welcome to the VWF and I am sure that you will enjoy your stay with us. Secondly, there is a lot of postings on Maiwand that you may find interesting and a copy of THE LAST STAND, a journal I edit that deals with all aspects of Maiwand.

I am delighted that you wish to purchase a copy of my book. I too saw the Amazon price which, incidently, was also on Ebay sometime ago. I knew my book was priceless but not to that extent! I am afraid that I do not have any spare copies of my book in my possession. However,the good news is that you can purchase the book at £19.99 from The Rifles (Berkshire & Wiltshire) Museum via their website address www.thewardrobe.org.uk. If you click on the Museum Shop tab you will find the book their and you can order on line. They take the usual credit and debit cards. As a bonus, I know that they have signed copies of the book available and if you want one of these then just ask for one by putting your request in the comments box.

On another good note, my book seems to have had a sudden and welcome spate of interest. Your enquiry is the umpteenth I have had over the past few weeks. Be assured that all profits from the book go to the museum and not to me - it was a labour of love.

Hope you and your son enjoy the book.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Glad I checked the thread as I'd not got round to ordering the book..
Just ordered from The Rifles website and asked for a signed copy - Christmas prez for self!

[maiwander]

I am delighted that you have obtained a copy. Hope that you enjoy the book...a jolly good read if I may say so.
Best wishes for the festive season.

[Hillebrandt]

Thanks also for the museum link. I checked on Amazon a while ago and saw the used book prices. I thought that I had requested an e-mail reminder for this one when Amazon themselves had it in stock but they don't appear to offer this facility any longer. Too late now anyway - ordered from the museum this morning and hopefully it will arrive to read over Christmas!!

[maiwander]

You are most welcome. I am sure the book will arrive before Christmas -enjoy.

[lijssenthoek1915]

I see more priceless works of Richard's this time from the Abe Books network relating to his Dr Watson connection though this time it is a series which I would imagine as a rarity value.
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/
THE FRIENDS OF DR. WATSON COLLECTION. ( SHERLOCK HOLMES / SHERLOCKIANA.)
STACPOOLE- RYDING, Richard (Edits).
Price: £ 240.00

I have ordered Richard's Maiwand book from the Wardrobe for the cover price....a saving of £205 over the priceless Amazon offering. Good to see from Richard's response that he has a sense of humour. I look forward to reading my son's Christmas present!
He is an avid reader of the George MacDonald Fraser "Flashman" books (he's read the lot several times over) and anything else for that matter by the late, great man as well as the Cornwell Sharpe series. I feel good about this as it shows that Political Incorrectness is still alive and well in a new generation despite all efforts to the contrary by the educational establishment.
I haven't myself read as much of GMF's "Flashman" novels as I would have liked and as I'm not giving him a clue about his Christmas present I'm not going to ask him when I see him (he's 25 and does not live at home) so wonder if anyone out there knows if Maiwand features in any of them and if he did what did "Flashman" make of it as I've always been impressed by GMF's powers of observation?

[Farmersboy]

Maiwander

Glad the book has picked up again, we always knew it would be a long haul - All the hard work and sleepless nights were worth it. I keep dropping in on it and would recommend it to anyone. The Museum will be launching its updated Website in January (After a heck of a long time and hard work) with a vastly upgraded COLLECTION section. It will have a key word search facility this time and the key Word 'Maiwand' gets a lot of hits.

Have a good one at christmas old man

Cheers
Farmersboy.