DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

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DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby TOWERBOY » 19 Jan 2014 15:32

Hi, does anyone have a list of Original Defenders ?? thank-you.
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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby Billy Fish » 19 Jan 2014 16:26

Hi,

I have a nominal roll of Officers and other ranks of all units who were Original Defenders at the Lucknow Residency. Are you looking for a specific name.

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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby TOWERBOY » 19 Jan 2014 17:57

Hi, medal with two clasps Defence of Lucknow - Lucknow...named too JAs SHAW, 84th REGt....medal was found in a box and in a drawer for over 30 years. Appreciate any info. cheers
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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby Les Waring » 19 Jan 2014 18:56

Hi

It's taken me a number of years to establish the identity of the 50 men of Company 'E' 84th Foot who were Original Defenders (ODs) of the Lucknow Residency. James ('Jas') Shaw is not one of them. The only Shaw I have on my list of c.1500 of the c.1700 European and Eurasian ODs (military/civilian, male/female) is Sgt John Shaw of the 32nd Foot, who died during the Siege.

It is very possible that Jas. Shaw was a member of the Havelock-Outram force which 'relieved' the original garrison in September 1857. Those who comprised this force, including several companies of the 84th, were awarded the 'Defence of Lucknow' clasp to their IMM (Indian Mutiny Medal).

The 84th were also involved in Sir Colin Campbell's final capture of Lucknow in 1858, for which the Luknow clasp was awarded.

I'll look up the medal roll to see what I can find about Jas.Shaw.


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Last edited by Les Waring on 19 Jan 2014 19:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby Les Waring » 19 Jan 2014 19:38

Hi again

I've checked the medal roll and there is a James Shaw of the 84th listed with those clasps. 'Jas' was the conventional abbreviation for James at that time.

There was also a Jabesz Shaw with the 84th, though he 'only' got a Defence clasp. Neither of them were Original Defenders from 30 june -25 September 1857.

Talking only of intrinsic value, and perhaps sentimental value for a family, I'd say that is a remarkable find. As to monetary value, not being a collector I can't make any commenT.

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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby TOWERBOY » 21 Jan 2014 15:59

Thank-you for all the information........The guy I bought it off, said it had been in the family for about 30-40 years, he researched the family tree and there was no Shaw in the family, he even had looked at the female side of the family to see if any Shaw's were there, so no family connection,no point in it sitting in a drawer, when a collector would appreciate it.
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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby buxton_blade » 24 Nov 2017 01:51

Hi Les/ Billy

Can you check your nominals for defenders of Lucknow for a Richard Burdett (84th Foot)

Many thanks

Wayne
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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby crimea1854 » 24 Nov 2017 12:23

Wayne I can confirm that he is on the roll with the 'Defence of Lucknow' clasp; the roll also notes that he was with Sir H Havelock's Force and that he died 25 Nov 1857.

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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby buxton_blade » 24 Nov 2017 23:16

Thanks Martin

So if I have this right - The 84th were part of the initial relief force which reached the residency 25th September (ish) only to then be besieged themselves until November.

Therefore they were entitled to the Defence of Lucknow medal even though they weren't there from the start?

Do you know how many 84th made it to the residency and how many survived?

Thanks again

Wayne
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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby Billy Fish » 25 Nov 2017 00:34

Hello Wayne,
This may answer you question:-

Original Defenders received the Indian Mutiny Medal with bar ‘Defence of Lucknow’
These numbered 1,538 soldiers and 160 civilians who were co-opted to serve in the Defence of the Residency. 4/1 Bengal Foot Artillery ; 32nd Foot ( 19 Officers and 517 other ranks) ; 84th Foot (50) ; 4/1 Bengal Artillery; 7th Bengal Light Cavalry; Oudh Irregular Units : 1,2,and 3 Cavalry; 1,4,5,7,9,and 10 Int., 3rd Horse Battery Artillery; and 1099 natives of the 13th,15th, 41st, 48th, 71st Native Infantry.


1st Relief Force under the command of Sir Henry Havelock received the Indian Mutiny Medal with bar ‘Defence of Lucknow’
The force included, 12th Irregular Cavalry (95); Volunteer Cavalry composed of civilians (20); 3/8 Royal Artillery; 2/3 Bengal Foot Artillery; 1/5th Foot (370); 64th Foot (137); 78th Foot (640); 84th Foot (190); 90th Foot (440); 1st Madras Fusiliers (1st Dublin Fusiliers) (376); 14th Ferozepore Sikhs (448); Military Train; Barrow’s Volunteer Cavalry.


2nd Relief Force under the command of Sir Colin Campbell
Received the Indian Mutiny Medal with bar ‘Relief of Lucknow’ for their part in the relief of the City of Lucknow. The force was composed as follows.

Cavalry: 8th Hussars (19); 9th Lancers (330); 1st, 2nd and 5th Native
Cavalry; Hodson’s Horse.

Artillery: 4/5, 11,5/13, 6/13 Royal Artillery; 1/1, 2/2, 2/3, 3/5
Bengal Horse Artillery; 3/1, 1/5, 3/6 Bengal Foot Artillery;
E Troop Madras Horse Artillery; Peshawar Mountain
Train Battery.

Engineers: One company of Royal Engineers and two companies
of Bengal and Punjab Sappers and Miners.

Infantry: 5th Foot (208, 16 as single bars); 8th Foot (331) 23rd Foot
(Wing);32nd Light Infantry (23); 53rd Foot (Wing 73); 64th
Foot (183); 75th Foot; 78th Foot (358); 82nd Foot
(two companies); 84th Foot (5 Officers and 23 other
ranks); 90th Foot (419, 47 as single bars); 93rd Foot
(963 including 113 as single bars); 1st Madras
(1st Dublin Fusiliers); 1st Bengal Europeans
(1st Munster Fusiliers, 414); 2nd ,4th Punjab Native
Infantry Regiment of Ferozepore; 57th Bengal
Native Infantry.

Naval Brigade from H.M.S. Shannon and H.E.I.C. Ship Calcutta. Seventeen medals with this bar were awarded to the Royal Marine Artillery.

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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby Waggoner » 25 Nov 2017 13:12

Billy Fish,

A great summary of the forces involved. Thank you for posting. One minor amplification...it was the 2nd Battalion Military Train that was involved. They had been enroute to China for one of the Opium Wars, were diverted to India, converted to Light Cavalry, and joined the relief force. Combatants, not logistics troops, were the priority!

All the best,

Gary
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Re: DEFENCE OF LUCKNOW MEDAL

Postby mike snook » 25 Nov 2017 18:49

Billy

These hasty notes I hope will aid you.

The military train squadrons ( x 2) were not part of the 1st Relief Force. They came up with Campbell in November.

The Ferezopore Regiment was called the Ferezopore Regiment (!) one of two all Sikh infantry regiments in the Bengal Army (the other was the Loodianah Regiment): the number 14 was not associated with it in any way until well after the Mutiny. It was 448 strong to begin with, but after the capture of Fatehpur, the first action of Havelock's campaign, was required to detach 100 men to the lines of communication, 50 men to Lohanga and 50 all the way back to Neill at Allahabad. It also left a contingent at the Alambagh...which comes up later. I think off the top of my head this was 50 men. In any event the regiment was nowhere near 448 strong at the Relief of Lucknow.

HM 64th was 435 strong to begin with. There were 31 men grouped to Maude's Battery, but it is unclear whether these had been reported as part of the 435 or not. I calculate 7 coys present with 3 still down towards to Calcutta. The regiment did not move forward of Cawnpore in mid-September and was left with its CO (the now Brigadier Wilson) to secure the town. However two of the coys which had missed all the pre-September excitement came up with General Outram and went under command of CO HM 84th for the second crossing of the Ganges and Relief of Lucknow.

1st, 2nd and 5th Punjaub Cavalry to give them their correct title. These were composite-squadron strength outfits, as was the Hodsons's Horse presence, which operated as the fourth squadron of a single composite regiment under John Watson's command.

The 95 number associated above with the 12th Bengal Irregular Cavalry is incorrectly attributed. 95 was the combined strength of loyalist residues of the 13th Bengal Irregular Cavalry and the 3rd Oude Irregular Cavalry operating under Lt. Palliser at the start of the campaign. These men were disarmed on 14/7/57. The strength of the 12th BIC contingent in the Oude Field Force was never more than 59.

There is no relationship between the start states of Havelock's (only partially complete) units when they started from Allahabad In early July and when, as the Oude Field Force, the same units, (topped up by companies arriving off the extended and vulnerable lines of communication to Calcutta), reinforced by something over half of HM 5th and about two-thirds of HM 90th, crossed the Ganges for the second time in mid-September. Thus 376, correct on 7/7/57, is a rogue number when applied to 1st Madras Fusiliers at the First Relief of Lucknow in September. At the outset there were another one hundred fusiliers aboard the steamer Behampooter, under Capt John Spurgin, typically only 6-7 miles away from everybody else, so arguably the regimental strength at the start is 476 anyway, but there at least 400 others spread from Allahabad to Calcutta.

In similar vein 190 when applied to HM 84th is correct for 7/7/57 but way wide of the mark for September. Two companies of the regiment were well forward of everybody else at Lucknow and Cawnpore (one of which was destroyed of course), a division of 190 (probably three companies) marched with Renaud's column and was then subsumed into the broader Allahabad Moveable Column when Havelock caught up, the night before the Battle of Fatehpur (12 Jul); next Colonel Neill (MF) brought up another 227 officers and men of the 84th (from Allahabad) after the Battle of Cawnpore (16 Jul); and a couple of weeks after that the light company (variously reported as 60 and 80) came up. It had been escorting artillery by road from Benares. I place the unit safely up around the 500 mark in the later period and, on top of that, it had the 2 x coys HM 64th under command.

If you seek a list of units for the Second Relief of Lucknow then you need the 1st and 2nd Battalions of Detachments commanded by Lt-Col Hamilton, 78th Hldrs, (brother of Col 'Watty' H of the same regiment) and Maj Roger Barnston, 90th LI. They were often referred to accordingly as 'Hamilton's Battalion of Detachments' or 'Barnston's Battalion of Detachments'. The mainstay of Barnston's was the three coys of HM 90th LI that had been shipwrecked in the Far East aboard the Transit, were then recovered to Singapore, and finally were shipped to Calcutta aboard HMSs Pearl and Shannon. They were thus divorced from and well behind the regimental main body of 7 coys under Col Campbell. The two 'battalions of detachments' also took under command the company strength contingents from each regiment earlier left behind at the Alambagh by Havelock. It is my belief that prior to the 25 Sep entry into Lucknow the regimental commanders were presented with a specified strength in orders, either 1 & 70 or 2 & 70, to be left behind under the central command of Lt Col McIntyre, 78th Hldrs. In most cases this reduced the participating regiments from average strengths in the 500s to average strength in the 400s, with the stronger (7 x coy) HM 90th LI dropping from something in the 600s to say 530-550-ish. My cautionary note here, as I am writing this off the top of my head, is that only four of the five European infantry regiments were ordered to provide contingents to McIntyre. I cannot immediately recall if I have yet established which four it was, or whether that remains a live issue for me. If it's important to you I will check my notes.

The volunteer cavalry, 20 strong on 7/7/57, were 109 strong in September and were not in fact mostly civilians, but rather a combination of mounted infantrymen (from HMs 64, 78 and 84, and 1st MF) and overthrown Bengal Army officers serving as volunteer privates and NCOs. There were a limited number of railwaymen, civil servants and indigo planters but the much greater preponderance was of professional military men.

I presume the jumble of numbers and units at the bottom is something to do with the award of campaign medals but 73, for example, bears no resemblance to the parade state of HM 53rd, which was represented by a half battalion of about 400+ during the 2nd Relief of Lucknow. HM 93rd on the other hand looks right.

Anyway it's a big complex subject and hopefully that will help a bit. There are orders of battle for Havelock's two forces and for Campbell's on the 'historical notes' pages of the website supporting my toy-making company 'Iron Duke Miniatures'. You'll find the site easily enough.

Regards

Mike
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