Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

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Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby Redleg56 » 05 Feb 2017 23:42

Good Evening:

I just finished viewing (again), the 1968 version of "The Charge of the Light Brigade".

Viewing the film reminded of a question I have always been meaning to ask: Is there a known final resting place for Captain Nolan, and is the grave marked?

Mike
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby Will Mathieson » 06 Feb 2017 03:26

Learn something new every day they say. I didn't know Capt. Nolan was born in my home province of Ontario.

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.c ... d=58955458

Communist Russia destroyed many of the memorials, if his exists I don't know.

This: http://www.silverwhistle.co.uk/crimea/louisnolan.html mentions a memorial plaque http://www.silverwhistle.co.uk/crimea/C ... Plaque.jpg now gone.
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby jf42 » 06 Feb 2017 09:47

Louis Nolan was hurriedly buried after the battle in the ditch of No. 5 Redoubt, overlooking North Valley where The Charge took place. Allegedly, in what would have been an act of remarkable spite, Lord Lucan forbade Nolan's body being brough back to the British camp.

There was no marker and the site of the grave, remainng in No-Man's Land after October 1854, was lost.
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby Redleg56 » 07 Feb 2017 01:44

Will/JF:

Thank you for the reply. Maybe someone will have the opportunity to do a bit archeological research at the site of Redoubt 5 and the grave of Captain Nolan and other members of the Light Brigade will have a proper marker placed over their final resting place.

Mike
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby Will Mathieson » 07 Feb 2017 07:40

Hi Mike I believe it's highly unlikely you would find anything at the redoubt. Have read that graves in the Crimea have been dug up in the past by people using metal detectors to find buttons and other metal items. In fact I bought five 93rd Highlander buttons all dug finds from the Crimea. Later I realized finding more than one or two buttons it's likely they dug up a grave. I believe their govt. has passed law to stop this grave looting practice.
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby jf42 » 07 Feb 2017 10:59

Most of the men who died in the Light Brigade attack on the Cossack battery were buried where they lay, in shallow graves all down the North Valley. There are accounts of patrols that went out in 1855-56 and came across the exposed and scattered remains of British dead. With the burials dispersed and many of the remains scattered, the work of gathering any remains to interr them centrally would have been difficult enough 150 years after the event, if the area hadn't subsequently become farmland and planted up with vines.

From the previous thread on VWF regarding the erection of a new memorial to the Crimean dead, I believe that,as a result of the neglect Will mentioned, even the cemetery on 'Cathcart's Hill', where those who died in the lines and in camp were buried in an orderly manner, has virtually disappeared.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=8700&hilit=Crimea+memorial

The buttons of the 93rd are from the double-breasted doublet, a subject that we kicked around here
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7911&p=35310#p35310
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby crimea1854 » 07 Feb 2017 12:43

I found it interesting that while creating a database of those Crimea casualties reported in the London Gazette, Nolan does not appear with the other men of the Light Brigade, in fact I could not find him at all.

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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby jf42 » 07 Feb 2017 15:52

crimea1854 wrote:I found it interesting that while creating a database of those Crimea casualties reported in the London Gazette, Nolan does not appear with the other men of the Light Brigade, in fact I could not find him at all.

Martin


Martin,

Might that be because Captain Nolan was an ADC attached to Headquarters? His regiment, the 15th King's Hussars, was not in the Crimea. Administratively, he was an orphan. His joining the Light Brigade in the attack on 25th October was unofficial and impromptu. When the returns for casualties of the day were made, given the level of staff efficiency in the Crimea, it is perhaps not surprising that his death was overlooked in the immediate reports- if that's what happened. It would seem more likely than a deliberate omission.
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby Redleg56 » 09 Feb 2017 02:29

Thank you for the additional replies. Interesting thread! I will begin re-reading my Crimean war books in the next couple of weeks, so I may have some additional questions.
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby Obsidian » 10 Feb 2017 02:59

Will Mathieson wrote:Hi Mike I believe it's highly unlikely you would find anything at the redoubt. Have read that graves in the Crimea have been dug up in the past by people using metal detectors to find buttons and other metal items. In fact I bought five 93rd Highlander buttons all dug finds from the Crimea. Later I realized finding more than one or two buttons it's likely they dug up a grave. I believe their govt. has passed law to stop this grave looting practice.


20 years ago while on a buying trip with an antique/militia dealer through Europe, we met a fellow in Russia who was selling relics that were allegedly ground finds from the Crimean War. He had a quite a collection including some of these diamond shaped 93rd' buttons as well other regiments. I remember these as there were only a few regiments with this shape.
Anyway my friend being an absolute stickler for authenticity did some research and learnt that seller had also been buying up Victorian buttons from overseas and "cooking" the buttons to change them and sell them as Crimean relics.
When pressed the seller admitted his sins but insisted that some were in actual fact ground finds mixed in with his doctored buttons.
I still have some here as the temptation on having some "real ones" was too great but my dealer friend declined as his reputation was far too important.
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Re: Light Brigade - Nolan's Grave?

Postby BingandNelsonFan » 17 Feb 2017 01:00

jf42 wrote:From the previous thread on VWF regarding the erection of a new memorial to the Crimean dead, I believe that,as a result of the neglect Will mentioned, even the cemetery on 'Cathcart's Hill', where those who died in the lines and in camp were buried in an orderly manner, has virtually disappeared.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=8700&hilit=Crimea+memorial


Quite right. In fact, there is nothing left from the original cemetery, as far as I know. It appears from old books that most of the stones were desecrated within twenty years or so. Here is a picture that shows just some of the graves that were actually there.

Thankfully, a number of people went out to the Crimean burial grounds and transcribed info, etc., shortly after the war was over. This book (from 1858) is a great reference, and it shows just how extensive the cemetery was on Cathcart's Hill. Have a look at page 44 of the PDF, and you'll see a whole diagram (matching an illustration just a few pages earlier):
https://books.google.com/books?id=u5LCS5v38TcC&pg=PP28&dq=fallen+brave+memorials+crimea&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEpLqe55XSAhVi_4MKHeD9Cc8Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=cathcart&f=false

Another thing about Cathcart's Hill that can be quite confusing is the fact that some of the men were buried right away and moved later into the "official" burying ground. For instance, I have a scan of a sketch/painting of what is, apparently, the first burial area of the Coldstream Guards, Grenadier Guards and Captain Rowley. Oddly enough, there is a grave for the Coldstreams and another for the Grenadiers, with Col. Blair (SFG) in between. Another grave two rows backed is marked for Henry Neville, Col. Pakenham and Captain Rowley (died 16th Oct 1854). Those first two are two of the three Grenadier Guards killed at Inkerman, so why are they not part of the "Grenadier Guards" grave? So, I think that it's very difficult in a lot of these cases to narrow in on the exact burial spot.

Interesting thread . . . and I enjoyed the story about the melted buttons. What people won't think of next!
Regards,
Sarah
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